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Modeling project - A very good way to learn Shark Pro
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NeuTechFLA  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 10, 2018 3:17:15 PM(UTC)
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I have set an audacious goal for myself. What you see in the image is what I hope to accomplish in Shark Pro over the next (?) months in my spare time. This is audacious, maybe even foolish, because I am a Noob. I have done tons of this stuff in other systems but not in Shark. This will provide a really intense training ground that will test my...everything. I will utilize as much traditional vehicle body design techniques as possible but it will be totally by "eye" as I have no scan to match. Meaning surface fullness/inflections/transitions etc....will be a guess inside the boundaries of each surface. I will only get a real "feel" for this by visiting a friend that has one of these cars and from images from the web. I have no clue how painful or easy this might be but, as it is said...what doesn't kill you...well doesn't kill you.

I just hope all you Shark veterans out there are not laughing behind your screens! :o)

I will share as I go along, although it may be VERY slow going for some time.

Edited by user Wednesday, January 10, 2018 3:19:50 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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jdi000  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 10, 2018 3:50:10 PM(UTC)
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Dean

Great project and it will be great to see you work thru it and share your experience.

Regards

Jason
Windows 11, 10
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digitalphaser  
#3 Posted : Thursday, January 11, 2018 3:22:09 AM(UTC)
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Wow, cool. At last!
This topic interests me very much. I tried to create same objects many times with VC. But each time the result was not satisfactory and I was returning to traditional polygon/subD modeling. Sometimes I used created CAD objects for retopology as reference. But in most cases it was wasted time.

I would like to follow all the stages of your project.
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NeuTechFLA  
#4 Posted : Thursday, January 11, 2018 3:36:16 PM(UTC)
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The work has begun! And by work I mean it's been challenge getting my bearings with Shark's quirks even to this point. I fully admit I am a Noob so by the end of this process many of my tactics may prove to be the most inefficient way to work Shark. But one has to start somewhere.

First observations:

1. Shark is NOT a body design tool! That is not necessarily a bad thing as it probably was never intended to be one. It just does not have the niceties that ICEM/Surf, Creo, Catia and NX have for doing this kind of work. All I know is it's going to be challenge to get to the end of this one.

2. Body design 101 is having the explicit ability to deal with the center line of the vehicle's curvature, acceleration and matching values. Being able to modify 3rd, 4th, 5th and beyond is crucial to getting it right. I could not seem to find the tools and/or technique so I have had to take extra steps to get center line curvature.

3. The Zebra lines are almost useless out of the box. If anyone knows how to make them G2 smooth, please let me know.

4. I did not think I would say this about Shark. The "associativity" (I know, not a word) within the features (Entities) are working against me. In many trials I found I needed to take the cowl to a solid to "see" its quality only to find I needed to delete it so I could get back to first surface underlying it to make changes. Something tells me I am doing something improper. Hopefully that is true and I find out the way through the forest.

5. The Model Tree is excruciatingly cumbersome. More to follow on that.

Edited by user Thursday, January 11, 2018 5:46:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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NeuTechFLA  
#5 Posted : Friday, January 12, 2018 5:44:36 AM(UTC)
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Day 2: Uh Oh!

Observations: I am not clear if it's my Noob status with Shark that is the reason or I have found some of the fundamental cracks and weaknesses of the software with regard to surfacing. Time will tell....and if anyone following my little boondoggle knows the answers to what I am pointing out, please let me know.
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NeuTechFLA  
#6 Posted : Friday, January 12, 2018 5:46:37 AM(UTC)
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Two more images...
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Nick R  
#7 Posted : Friday, January 12, 2018 5:53:00 AM(UTC)
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Have you tried changing the objects resolution? This should improve the Zebra display a bit. I don't think you can get rid of the jagged edges fully though.
I agree that Shark needs much better control of G2 and G3. It should be at least as good as Rhino and have the same controls for surfaces and solids.

Nick R
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NeuTechFLA  
#8 Posted : Friday, January 12, 2018 6:39:06 AM(UTC)
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I believe I have changed the object resolution. I will look explicitly at that tonight to verify that is what I have/have not done. Thanks Nick.
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UGMENTALCASE  
#9 Posted : Friday, January 12, 2018 7:18:04 AM(UTC)
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Superfine resolution, in my opinion, wasn't super fine. Edit that .ini file and go to at least 0.03 on superfine.

I played with it and anything lower and it got very sad about it, so 0.03 was a good settlement for me, nice and fine.

As for the rads, I know what you mean, and slightly out the ordinary bends and it falls over! I ended up creating a surface without rads, and then intersecting the surface, bending the intersection lines, as per required, and then recreate surface by lofting or cover surface, which ever it was.
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NeuTechFLA  
#10 Posted : Friday, January 12, 2018 10:39:45 AM(UTC)
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Day 2 continuation.

Thanks to UGMENTALCASE (edit: and NickR) for the fantastic suggestion to modify the resolution.ini file. That was worth GOLD today as it made the progress a bit more easy to accept as true, what was visible on the screen.

Observations:

I am not certain why I am even showing Zebra curves because all I can get to is G1 with the transitions. I can't even use traditional body design techniques because it's either not there or I have not found the magic yet. The whole thing falls apart on me otherwise if I try that method. Again, this could be my lack of skill. However, I seem to be picking the icons that say what it is I wish to do and I follow the prompts, but to no avail! Time in the saddle with determine the outcome.

Curve/spline end conditions and control: Does it even exist in this software?

Boundary matching control: Does this exist in this software?

Do not take on my complaints yet. I am too much of a Shark novice to have an opinion. At the end of this project...it may be worth two fish and a goat.

This is the last upload of today.

Edited by user Saturday, January 13, 2018 10:53:00 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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UGMENTALCASE  
#11 Posted : Friday, January 12, 2018 11:10:13 AM(UTC)
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You can try 'showing points', think its in edit or something (ctrl d - in windows) and that'll give you some additional point to control, not sure whether these can be projected but clicking them gives you a global position which can be dragged about or edites in x, y z format.

This might help? I found that good in drafting to edit the position of section lines etc :-)

Looks like a nice paint job to me ;-) Have a look in the inspector bar and check surface control (i think) might be able to edit how many points it has?

There is a match surface icon, is that any good?
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digitalphaser  
#12 Posted : Friday, January 12, 2018 1:34:40 PM(UTC)
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Indeed "Fillet Surface" works only between two surfaces. It is typical for VC/Shark. Shark's tools work well mainly with simple objects.

There is another way:
1. Join all surfaces.
2. Constant Blend
3. Convert the resulting solid back to the surface.

Editing surface points works well only with primitives. Complex surfaces are not editable. At least I did not find a way to edit it.

The latest images look good. ;)
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Jolyon  
#13 Posted : Saturday, January 13, 2018 4:40:11 AM(UTC)
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Similarly ... if you use the 'Stitch' tool to stitch a solid from your various surfaces ...

(untick the option for 'closed volume required') ...

... then you can use all the solid feature tools - which certainly in the case of blending are more flexible

(Be aware that when you make such an 'open solid' - normals of-course point only 'outward' - limiting view-ability from the 'inner side').

Jol
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NeuTechFLA  
#14 Posted : Saturday, January 13, 2018 8:01:24 AM(UTC)
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Day 3

UGMENTALCASE, I do have points shown but those are only useful for mods within the curve. And even then, very limited. I am looking for real control along and at the end points. "Position" which is a simple "snap" is easy enough but the little "direction handles" seems to only work with "along" as the constrained result which I assume is tangent(?) But I want to be able to specify G2 or G3 and then see, and modify, the nodes rearward. It's a hope and a dream that could happen.

Digitalphaser, I see the technique. I see it limited in actual use with regard to transitional surfacing. I will give it go to learn it, however.

Jolyon, I will give your suggestions a go. I will see what this does to the path I am on.

It's fun learning the quirks so far. progress images attached. LONG way to go.
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NeuTechFLA  
#15 Posted : Sunday, January 14, 2018 6:07:33 AM(UTC)
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Day 4

sharing images only today. I am learning much more each day.
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cad'n'stuff  
#16 Posted : Monday, January 15, 2018 2:03:08 PM(UTC)
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Wow, that looks very nice.
May I ask what spline-types you use?

keep up the good work
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NeuTechFLA  
#17 Posted : Monday, January 15, 2018 6:42:49 PM(UTC)
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Short night tonight...

Cad-n-stuff, I am using simple interpolated splines.

Edited by user Monday, January 15, 2018 6:45:14 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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digitalphaser  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, January 16, 2018 2:31:50 AM(UTC)
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Very nice! I can not wait to see the next "portion". :)
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NeuTechFLA  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, January 16, 2018 11:37:52 AM(UTC)
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Let's put it this way....if I were being paid to do this job....I would have been fired at 10:15 this morning and shown the door! :o) The area in front of the wheel is absolutely disgraceful. Ha! Discontinuities everywhere and the radii seem to freak out the software. It will have to be rebuilt in order for it to look anything like a vehicle fascia.

Observations:

Either my Noob status is worse than I thought or I simply have not acquired the "juice" to do this correctly yet. Having the restriction of only being able to add a G2 rad (or any radius) to one surface is soooooo tough to navigate. If this is going to be a matter of Lofting/Netting/Skinning/Cover surface everything....long days ahead. And, if all the radii have to be completed on a solid model, then I am not sure what to say. That might be a deal breaker.

The G2 "matching" is very nebulous to me. It seems to force some continuous constraint onto one surface that completely morphs it out of shape leaving bubbles and divots everywhere. So far...no use to me. Boundary matching altogether seems too esoteric to be of use. Again my Noob status might be the issue.

Surface trimming leaves much to be desired.

In six months, I may (hope to) be singing another tune.

Edited by user Tuesday, January 16, 2018 11:41:49 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Jolyon  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, January 17, 2018 3:19:15 AM(UTC)
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As a former car guy - you're raising lots of great issues that - like you, I've had to work around. I really hope somebody's taking notes ! Keep it up ! Jol
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