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workshopswarf  
#1 Posted : Monday, March 24, 2014 7:06:33 AM(UTC)
workshopswarf

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Joined: 6/22/2011(UTC)
Posts: 91

This the most detailed part I have modeled so far. All was going well, I am learning as I go, but as I progress strange things are happening.
After using the remove solid tool to make the bore ( first attachment below) parts of the model now have holes in them. The model is perfect on the outside but looking down the inside where the part was removed I can see right through it in places. Difficult to see on the image but the hole seen at the front of the bore, for example, is where a cylindrical solid was added to the model from below. the back of the bore has become transparent and you can see right through it.
I worked around this by adding a larger solid to plug the solid removed and then used the remove solid tool again. (second attachment) which is what it should look like.
Today when I am using the blend tool, adjacent areas are disappearing in the same way, the blend is fine .
Is this a bug? how do I fix it?
I am using windows 7 and ViaCad 3D v8.
workshopswarf attached the following image(s):
Capture looking down bore.PNG (56kb) downloaded 6 time(s).
Capture after sleeving bore.PNG (66kb) downloaded 6 time(s).

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rockyroad_us  
#2 Posted : Monday, March 24, 2014 8:29:16 AM(UTC)
rockyroad_us

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sounds like a video card hiccup. Try changing the resolution higher to see if your holes disappear. That seems to be common at my end.
FX 7-FXPro14-1650
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workshopswarf  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, March 25, 2014 2:05:09 PM(UTC)
workshopswarf

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Thank you for your suggestion. I have tried different resolutions, it makes no difference, the missing areas are still not showing.
I am now having the same problem with the hole tool.
I added a blind hole to the boss on the right of the object. You can see right though when looking from the inside. Revolving the object shows the outside is unaffected.
I cannot continue the project until an answer is found very frustrating after spending hour creating it.
workshopswarf attached the following image(s):
Capture hole attempt.PNG (114kb) downloaded 6 time(s).

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rockyroad_us  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, March 25, 2014 10:21:13 PM(UTC)
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can you post a file or just as section of that? Also try to verify your part by going through CHECK OBJECT. See what that tells you.
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workshopswarf  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:18:09 AM(UTC)
workshopswarf

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Joined: 6/22/2011(UTC)
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This is what check object shows.
I have having trouble uploading the file. I keep getting "upload failed" message.
One time I got "token missing" message.
I also tried sending as dwg. file but still cannot.
workshopswarf attached the following image(s):
Check object.PNG (9kb) downloaded 6 time(s).

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jol  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, March 26, 2014 4:23:02 AM(UTC)
jol

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I don't know if you have the stitch tool in VC.

If you do, try using it to click on your trouble solid.

It will be restitched and may fix your problem.

Have you also tried :

- simply changing resolution - to see if the error is graphical only ?

- saved out as a SAT file and load it back in - to strip the file back to model data

- stabbing eyeball / scrotum repeatedly with a sharp pen
billbedford  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, March 26, 2014 4:25:41 AM(UTC)
billbedford

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I've seen this quite often. The problem is with the screen rendering and not the actual object.
workshopswarf  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, March 26, 2014 10:25:15 AM(UTC)
workshopswarf

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I have tried your suggestion but still not resolved the issue.

jol
I have a stitch tool, use of this brings up the error Invalid solid created during healing, or Could not stitch into solid.
I have tried changing resolutions.
I exported as SAT and then imported back into VC. Now it won't let me select a surface when using the hole tool.
I will try your third suggestion, that could be the answer!

billbedford
You have the same problem, how do you get over it?

Tried again to upload the file but get this massage about tokens missing.
jol  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, March 26, 2014 2:02:14 PM(UTC)
jol

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Hi David - are you able to share the model ?

post it here or on dropbox

If you can't restitch - and get an error message ... it does seem like a problem that needs fixing - rather than a graphical error

By the way ... the way to tell if it's only a graphical error is to show facets in the view menu. If the facets look ok - then it's just a faceting error. (Think I've got that right !?)

Again though - if you can get it public - I'm sure we can get to the bottom of it.
workshopswarf  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:47:25 PM(UTC)
workshopswarf

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Thank you for your support.
I have no show facets in my view menu.( VC v8 )
I have put the file on dropbox
[URL="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/94722117/AERMOTOR%20BLOCK%2026%20for%20dropbox.vc3"]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/94722117/AERMOTOR%20BLOCK%2026%20for%20dropbox.vc3[/URL]
The hole shown that has the problem was made .75 dia x .75 deep
Making a hole in other locations gives the same results.
jol  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, March 26, 2014 4:10:55 PM(UTC)
jol

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Hi

If you turn the U's and V's on

(here I have spec'd 8 x 8)

then I see that the 'missing faces' are actually fine

they are just not faceted correctly

Tim needs to see this model to fix the faceting

In the meantime - I would carry on with your blending

You may well find that as the geometry changes with the addition of blends, the problem will suddenly right itself

Does that allow you to continue ?

Shall I send the model through to Tim ?

Jol
jol attached the following image(s):
uv.png (79kb) downloaded 6 time(s).

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jol  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, March 26, 2014 4:16:44 PM(UTC)
jol

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no - you're quite right ... there is a bigger issue somewhere ?
jol  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, March 26, 2014 5:31:37 PM(UTC)
jol

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Sorry - I can't see a way to fix it

I'd say ACIS has got it's knickers twisted

You need to step through again from the beginning - focussing on super-clean modelling. Any operation that isn't super-clean may give you a problem in the future

Sorry I couldn't do more - perhaps someone else could take a look - see if they concur

Jol
workshopswarf  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, March 26, 2014 5:34:03 PM(UTC)
workshopswarf

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Yes please send model to Tim for evaluation.
workshopswarf  
#15 Posted : Thursday, March 27, 2014 1:47:20 PM(UTC)
workshopswarf

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Posts: 91

Thank you for your trouble. I must say I am disappointed. Am I unlucky and this a one off problem or can I expect further issues as the project continues?
I will go back to a previous saved version of a few days ago,before the issue arose and see if it happens again. If it does I will be looking for some new CAD software.
jol  
#16 Posted : Thursday, March 27, 2014 3:46:10 PM(UTC)
jol

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All CAD requires very careful planning and construction with nice clean logical feature intersections ... with constant checking and re-checking as you go.

One iffy fudged or poorly-thought-out feature will bring the deck down later (normally when you think you're nearly finished).

You've got to think like you're making a real model in real reality - and not depend on some fuzzy logic magically making everything right for you in CAD.

It happens in Solidworks and CATIA too believe me.

That said - ACIS allows you to make horrible geometry -

... It shouldn't let itself create invalid geometry - as this clearly is. And when it does, it should be able to point out where things have gone awry.

2014 CAD is pretty amazing, albeit difficult

Be glad you didn't (like me) get into it in 1990 : )

Better still, come back in 2030, when I can guarantee it will be much better again!

Hopefully Tim can send this model to Spatial and they can find out (at least) why 'verify>check objects' doesn't catch the fault.

Jol
workshopswarf  
#17 Posted : Thursday, March 27, 2014 4:03:26 PM(UTC)
workshopswarf

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Hi Jol
I have gone back to previous saved version as mentioned, and got it nearly back to the same level. So far so good.
Would be interesting to know what went wrong though so I can avoid it in the future.
As I am still learning I will have used many more mouse clicks than an experienced user, probably doesn't help.
Thank you for your help.

You have some nice stuff on you web site!
L. Banasky  
#18 Posted : Thursday, March 27, 2014 4:12:29 PM(UTC)
L. Banasky

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Hi David,
The hole can be put in, but it might not be proper to produce an actual casting. I "removed feature" the .750 hole, drew a .750005 circle, extruded 1 inch, added solids, and then the .750 hole,.750 deep.
Jol is 100% correct on his information, some tasks that look simple are difficult, and just the opposite on harder assignments.
It doesn't matter what CAD program you use. I did try different exports, Catia showed the least errors, step and sat indicated errors when opened in Inventor.
Larry
L. Banasky attached the following image(s):
Hole.jpg (39kb) downloaded 7 time(s).
Errors.jpg (42kb) downloaded 7 time(s).

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workshopswarf  
#19 Posted : Friday, March 28, 2014 3:13:45 AM(UTC)
workshopswarf

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Posts: 91

Thank you Larry for your time.
There are work arounds then. Going back to a saved version of a few day ago is working so far.
I won't be using the CAD model to produce a casting. I already have the pattern and have made castings from it. I am reverse engineering a model I made some time ago so I can produce plans for others as only sketches were done at the time.

If anyone is interested this is how the finished engine looks.
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbnpYjBKxM8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbnpYjBKxM8[/URL]
L. Banasky  
#20 Posted : Friday, March 28, 2014 6:26:34 AM(UTC)
L. Banasky

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Hi David,
The finished engine looks great. Next month we have a show here in Michigan. http://www.namesexposition.com/
where all types of models are on display. My son uses a NextEngine scanner for reverse engineering, he can accomplish more in one hour, than I can in a week. The future looks good.
I was curious though, why you work in inches, instead of mm.
I checked out your videos, very nice.
Larry
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