logo
NOTICE:  This is the new PunchCAD forum. You should have received an email with your new password around August 27, 2014. If you did not, or would like it reset, simply use the Lost Password feature, and enter Answer as the security answer.
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
kzintar  
#1 Posted : Friday, February 15, 2019 3:00:34 AM(UTC)
kzintar

Rank: Guest

Joined: 8/28/2015(UTC)
Posts: 13

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
I'm using ViaCAD Pro 10 on macOS X Mojave (10.14.3).

I have two low/medium complexity solids.

I overlap a part of one solid ('A') onto other solid ('B'), click "Subtract Solid", click on solid 'A' (the solid I wanted subtracted from) and then click on solid 'B' (the solid I want subtracted from solid 'A').

ViaCAD Pro 10 removes solid 'A' from the window and puts up a dialog titled "ACIS Error", with the message:

"Two or more vertices of one body mapped to a single entity of the other body:Part_..."

When I click the "Ok" button solid 'A' is returned to the window without being modified.

I get the same error when I hold down the option key when clicking on solid 'B', or if I try to use "Intersect Solid"

I quit and restarted ViaCAD Pro, and copy/pasted copies of the two solids into a new file. The problem still occurs.

I quit & restarted ViaCAD Pro, copy/pasted copies of the two solids into a new file, and used 'CutOut Solid" to cut away half of both solids (to see if I could isolate the part(s) of the solids causing the problem).. When I tried to reproduce the issue ViaCAD reports a different "ACIS Solid" error:

"system inconsistency processing edge coincidence:ACIS Solid_..."

As with the "two or more vertices..." ACIS error, solid A was removed from the workspace before the error dialog was presented, but like the other error, when I click "Ok" solid A is restored to the workspace.

I've attached a .vcp file that (at least for me) consistently produces the error. I'll try cutting away different parts of the two solids to see if I can identify the specific section of solid 'a' and/or 'b' that's triggering the error.

Although I suspect that I can avoid this issue by recreating one or both solids from scratch, I'm hoping someone will spot the specific flaw/mistake in the solid(s) that causes this error so that I can avoid it in the future.

thanks,

kz.

ps. strangely, **after** I get the "two or more vertices..." error, *but* *not* (near as I was quickly able to determine) when I get the "system inconsistency..." error, ViaCAD Pro's solid add/subtract behavior changes (until I quit and restart ViaCAD Pro).

* add solid - If I create two cubes, place one of the faces of cube 'A' (Part_77799824) against one of the faces of cube 'B' (Part_77799879), and then use 'add solid' to combine solid 'A' to solid 'B', I end up with 3 solids: the expected (combined) 'AB' solid (Part_77799824) **and** the original and still separate 'A' (also named Part_77799824 and 'B'(Part_77799879) solids.

normally adding two solids together results in a single (combined) solid, without leaving the original solids in the work space.

* subtract solid - if I create identical two cubes, and overlap half of cube 'a' over half of cube 'b', and then use subtract solid to remove the overlapped portion of cube 'b' from cube 'a', the overlapping portion of the two cubes isn't subtracted from cube 'a'.

File Attachment(s):
ACIS Error.vcp (45kb) downloaded 11 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
L. Banasky  
#2 Posted : Friday, February 15, 2019 7:08:13 AM(UTC)
L. Banasky

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/16/2007(UTC)
Posts: 596

Thanks: 138 times
Was thanked: 139 time(s) in 99 post(s)
If you 'Split Solid' on the front solid, and copy the 'cutout' part, and then 'Subtract, it should work.
Then add the two front solids.
I'll try to post the file.
Larry

Edited by user Friday, February 15, 2019 7:28:28 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

File Attachment(s):
ACIS Error.sfx (51kb) downloaded 2 time(s).
L. Banasky attached the following image(s):
ACIS Error.jpg (50kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
kzintar  
#3 Posted : Friday, February 15, 2019 10:25:54 AM(UTC)
kzintar

Rank: Guest

Joined: 8/28/2015(UTC)
Posts: 13

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Originally Posted by: L. Banasky Go to Quoted Post
If you 'Split Solid' on the front solid, and copy the 'cutout' part, and then 'Subtract, it should work.

Thanks so much for taking the time to take a look, but this approach (split solid smaller solid (B) into B1 & B2, subtract B1 from A, then subtract B2 from A) also produces an ACIS error.

I started over, this time doing a split solid the larger solid ("A") into two solids (A1 & A2), then subtracted the small solid ("B") from A1 and then subtracted B from A2. Attempting to subtract B from A2 also resulted in an ACIS error: "system inconsistency processing edge coincidence:ACIS Solid_...". (I've uploaded files showing each step before the ACIS error)

(This split solid & subtract approach is actually close to what I was trying to do when I did cutoff solid & subtracted as mentioned in my first post)

When I attempted to reproduce this new ("System inconsistency") ACIS error so that I could create multiple .vcp files to show each step in the process, I received a new & different error "misclassified graph coedge - probably geometrical problem."

When I attempted to reproduce this new ("misclassified..." ACIS error) I received a *third* ACIS error!: "Boolean could not determine the relationship between an edge of one body and face of other body"

Can you save & upload multiple files showing your split solid and subtract steps? I've uploaded files showing my split solid attempts. As I mentioned, it's the *final* subtract step that results in an ACIS error (and thus a file can't be saved showing the step).

One other request... Do you know what's wrong with solid A and solid B that's triggering the ACIS error? Although it'd be great to find a work around that avoids the error, I'd prefer to not have to find a work around in the first place!

ACIS Error - Create cover surface - Create vertical cover surface to in preparation to split large solid A in half

ACIS Error - Split A into A1 & A2 - Split solid (using cover surface) on large solid A, creating solids A1 & A2

ACIS Error - Subtract B from A1 - Subtract solid B from A1 (hold down option key to retain solid B)

ACIS Error - Subtract B from A2 (not saved) - Subtract solid B from A2 triggers ACIS error

(see other saved files that show split solid of B into B1 & B2 and then subtraction of B1 from A)
File Attachment(s):
ACIS Error - Create cover surface.vcp (47kb) downloaded 3 time(s).
ACIS Error - Split A into A1 & A2.vcp (57kb) downloaded 1 time(s).
ACIS Error - Subtract B from A1.vcp (55kb) downloaded 1 time(s).
ACIS Error - Split B into B1 & B2.vcp (69kb) downloaded 1 time(s).
ACIS Error - Subtract B1 from A.vcp (89kb) downloaded 1 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
rockyroad_us  
#4 Posted : Friday, February 15, 2019 10:57:41 AM(UTC)
rockyroad_us

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 9/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 600
Man
United States
Location: In my place

Was thanked: 52 time(s) in 46 post(s)
the reason you get that type of error is because the flat surfaces of the tabs are not in the same plane as those in the box. If you zoom in very close there's all sorts of wall offsets. Also, I've noticed one tab being higher than the other one meaning they are not symmetrical unless it was designed for one way insertion.

One way to solve this offset is to use the match surface and then you can subtract without that error.



FX 7-FXPro14-1650
MacPro 11.7.4
2x2.8GHz Quad Xeon 32GB
NVIDIA 4 K5000 4GB
Work
thanks 1 user thanked rockyroad_us for this useful post.
kzintar on 2/15/2019(UTC)
L. Banasky  
#5 Posted : Friday, February 15, 2019 11:45:18 AM(UTC)
L. Banasky

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/16/2007(UTC)
Posts: 596

Thanks: 138 times
Was thanked: 139 time(s) in 99 post(s)
Probably many ways to do it,
hope this helps.
Larry
File Attachment(s):
ACIS steps.sfx (163kb) downloaded 2 time(s).
L. Banasky attached the following image(s):
ACIS steps.jpg (62kb) downloaded 14 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
thanks 2 users thanked L. Banasky for this useful post.
kzintar on 2/15/2019(UTC), magicart on 2/15/2019(UTC)
kzintar  
#6 Posted : Friday, February 15, 2019 11:52:54 AM(UTC)
kzintar

Rank: Guest

Joined: 8/28/2015(UTC)
Posts: 13

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Originally Posted by: rockyroad_us Go to Quoted Post
the reason you get that type of error is because the flat surfaces of the tabs are not in the same plane as those in the box. If you zoom in very close there's all sorts of wall offsets. Also, I've noticed one tab being higher than the other one meaning they are not symmetrical unless it was designed for one way insertion.

One way to solve this offset is to use the match surface and then you can subtract without that error.





Thanks!

Keep in mind that my uploaded files are only a subset of my design, simplified & reduced to show the ACIS error. In reality I don't want the inner surface of the tabs to match the inner surfaces of the 'box'. The same error occurs with the actual design.

Still, I thought I'd try 'match surface' to see if that'd help. I could always 'fix' the tabs back to the way I want them to be after subtracting solid 'b' from solid 'a'.

The bad news is that I can't make 'match surface' work. I select the tool, click on the edge of the box's inner surface... and nothing happens. Click on the edge of a tab's inner surface... nothing happens. Do you know of an online tutorial that'll teach me how to use the 'match surface' tool?

> If you zoom in very close there's all sorts of wall offsets.

Hmmm... I can't see what you're describing, no matter how much I zoom in. Can you zoom in on what you're seeing, take a screen capture, and upload/attach it?

Thanks & best regards,

kz
kzintar  
#7 Posted : Friday, February 15, 2019 11:59:02 AM(UTC)
kzintar

Rank: Guest

Joined: 8/28/2015(UTC)
Posts: 13

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Originally Posted by: L. Banasky Go to Quoted Post
Probably many ways to do it,
hope this helps.
Larry


Thanks, this does help! I now understand what you meant, and was able to use your approach to subtract 'b' from 'a'.

My actual design is somewhat more complicated than the example I uploaded, but I'm sure I can adapt the approach to my project.

Many, many thanks!

kz.
rockyroad_us  
#8 Posted : Friday, February 15, 2019 2:08:52 PM(UTC)
rockyroad_us

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 9/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 600
Man
United States
Location: In my place

Was thanked: 52 time(s) in 46 post(s)
Originally Posted by: kzintar Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: rockyroad_us Go to Quoted Post
the reason you get that type of error is because the flat surfaces of the tabs are not in the same plane as those in the box. If you zoom in very close there's all sorts of wall offsets. Also, I've noticed one tab being higher than the other one meaning they are not symmetrical unless it was designed for one way insertion.

One way to solve this offset is to use the match surface and then you can subtract without that error.





Thanks!



> If you zoom in very close there's all sorts of wall offsets.

Hmmm... I can't see what you're describing, no matter how much I zoom in. Can you zoom in on what you're seeing, take a screen capture, and upload/attach it?

Thanks & best regards,

kz


All you have to do is zoom in while looking at the top or front view. When you see parallel walls on a wall that should be on the same plane it starts to look like parallel walls when maxed zoomed. I have a good graphics card so might be the reason you can't see that. Take for instance these area, the area with the circle has a tiny tiny step, I know it is suppose to be one planar wall but this is two walls. The program can't subtract for that reason or another if the surface is like microns inside or outside the other solid.

Also, the inside of the tab should also be planar with the inner wall of the frame. So I would start with fixing the model.

Edited by user Friday, February 15, 2019 2:11:22 PM(UTC)  | Reason: added description

rockyroad_us attached the following image(s):
offset-1.jpg (46kb) downloaded 0 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
FX 7-FXPro14-1650
MacPro 11.7.4
2x2.8GHz Quad Xeon 32GB
NVIDIA 4 K5000 4GB
Work
thanks 1 user thanked rockyroad_us for this useful post.
kzintar on 2/15/2019(UTC)
kzintar  
#9 Posted : Friday, February 15, 2019 3:30:43 PM(UTC)
kzintar

Rank: Guest

Joined: 8/28/2015(UTC)
Posts: 13

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Thanks!

> When you see parallel walls on a wall that should be on the same plane it starts to look like parallel walls when maxed zoomed. I have a good graphics card so might be the reason you can't see that.

Now that I know exactly what you're looking at I can see what you describe.

> Also, the inside of the tab should also be planar with the inner wall of the frame. So I would start with fixing the model.

Remember that the uploaded ACIS Error file is just an example that reproduces the ACIS error, and isn't my actual project.

In the actual project the inside of the tab isn't planar with the inner wall of the frame, and the error still occurs.

Which means that it's likely "When you see parallel walls on a wall that should be on the same plane it starts to look like parallel walls when maxed zoomed." is the cause of the ACIS error. I'll look closely at the walls/surfaces on the actual project and clean them up.

Thus far I've been unsuccessful in finding an online tutorial or reference that specifically demonstrates/describes/discusses how to use the "Match Surface" tool, but I'll keep looking!

Thanks,

Kz.
rockyroad_us  
#10 Posted : Friday, February 15, 2019 3:43:52 PM(UTC)
rockyroad_us

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 9/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 600
Man
United States
Location: In my place

Was thanked: 52 time(s) in 46 post(s)
Originally Posted by: kzintar Go to Quoted Post
Thanks!



Remember that the uploaded ACIS Error file is just an example that reproduces the ACIS error, and isn't my actual project.

In the actual project the inside of the tab isn't planar with the inner wall of the frame, and the error still occurs.



Kz.


I do know that when subtracting planar walls or even curved walls, The walls have to be on the same plane or outside the solid being subtracted. If the wall is a micro-hair inside the solid, the error kicks in since it will leave a paper thin wall which in reality is more like a surface in the solid if it does do it but most likely won't thus the error.

FX 7-FXPro14-1650
MacPro 11.7.4
2x2.8GHz Quad Xeon 32GB
NVIDIA 4 K5000 4GB
Work
thanks 1 user thanked rockyroad_us for this useful post.
kzintar on 2/15/2019(UTC)
kzintar  
#11 Posted : Friday, February 15, 2019 4:14:54 PM(UTC)
kzintar

Rank: Guest

Joined: 8/28/2015(UTC)
Posts: 13

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
It turns out that in my actual project the problem was the (equivalent of that) section that you circled, which has two surfaces.

The good news is that when I fixed that section to have a single surface, I was able to subtract solid 'b' from solid 'a'

The bad news is that I could only fix that area through brute force, using the push/pull tool.

I take it that if I could learn how to use the "match surface" tool that I wouldn't need to use the brute force (push/pull) approach to fix this sort of problem?

Right now I predict that it'll only take another 15... maybe only 10... minutes of pointless clicking on all the edges of those two surfaces (in my 'broken' project) using the "match surface" tool (with ***ABSOLUTELY*** nothing happening!!! :-( :-( ) before I go completely nuts.

So... Forgive my snark when I say that (for *me*) the match surface tool is useless.

but, many, many thanks (again) for identifying the root cause of the ACIS error. I might not be able to fix this sort of issue using the match surface tool, but at least I'll be able to identify and fix the problem... brute force.


kzintar  
#12 Posted : Friday, February 15, 2019 4:38:23 PM(UTC)
kzintar

Rank: Guest

Joined: 8/28/2015(UTC)
Posts: 13

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
FWIW, I also find that the "split surface", "join surface", and "surface extend" tools behave similarly to "match surface"... meaning that selecting them and clicking on the faces/surfaces or surface edges does absolutely nothing; nothing is (visibly) selected, and nothing changes.

Using the surface extend tool as an example... I select the surface extend tool and I'm directed to "pick the surface edge or face to extend".

Okay,

I click on a surface edge... nothing happens. No change in ViaCAD's direction that I should "pick the surface edge or face to extend"

I click on a face... nothing happens. No change in ViaCAD's direction that I should "pick the surface edge or face to extend"

I click on a surface edge (or face) and drag... nothing happens. No change in ViaCAD's direction that I should "pick the surface edge or face to extend"

I'm sure that I'm doing something wrong, but I have no idea what it could be.

Could I trouble you to take a couple of screen captures showing *precisely* where/what to click on (inside that circle you drew over the end of the long tab on the front/face solid) using the surface match tool that, if done correctly, will turn those two surfaces into a single surface? Oh, and is the match surface tool drop down menu set to "match position", "match tangent", or "match curvature"?

thanks,

kz.
rockyroad_us  
#13 Posted : Friday, February 15, 2019 4:42:11 PM(UTC)
rockyroad_us

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 9/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 600
Man
United States
Location: In my place

Was thanked: 52 time(s) in 46 post(s)
Originally Posted by: kzintar Go to Quoted Post
It turns out that in my actual project the problem was the (equivalent of that) section that you circled, which has two surfaces.

but, many, many thanks (again) for identifying the root cause of the ACIS error. I might not be able to fix this sort of issue using the match surface tool, but at least I'll be able to identify and fix the problem... brute force.




I don't think the match surface tool works because the change is so minuscule. I think I would start by bringing down the decimal place in your model to 4 decimal places and work with work plane on at all times. There are videos I've seen around that show how the match surface tool works.
FX 7-FXPro14-1650
MacPro 11.7.4
2x2.8GHz Quad Xeon 32GB
NVIDIA 4 K5000 4GB
Work
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.