logo
NOTICE:  This is the new PunchCAD forum. You should have received an email with your new password around August 27, 2014. If you did not, or would like it reset, simply use the Lost Password feature, and enter Answer as the security answer.
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error
2 Pages12>
Newbie questions... "fancy" holes (#2155)
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Previous Topic Next Topic
jtfx  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:31:54 PM(UTC)
jtfx

Rank: Member

Joined: 3/16/2009(UTC)
Posts: 34
I tried doing some searches and found some related threads, but none that applied directly to what I want to do.

I want to design hydraulic valve manifolds. For those not familiar, they basically are a rectangular block of aluminum or steel with special "cavities" drilled into them that accept cartridge valves.

The cavities are like counterbored holes with several different diameters and radiuses (radii?).

I have found the profile of the cavities as .dxfs online. They can be imported and lathed around their center axis to make a "positive" of the cavity. Then I can move them to the block, do a subtract object, and I have my cavity in the block.

The problem is, once this fancy hole is in the block, I can't seem to do anything with it? I can't select it, as I end up just selecting the block that contains the hole, I can dimension it, as it is just a void with no center.

I tried just leaving them as a bunch of solids so I could move them around, but it didn't take to long until selecting one "positive" of a given cavity at a time became a problem, as I'd end up selecting parts of other cavities or ports.

I attached a sample of a "lathed" cavity profile so you can get an idea of what a typical cavity looks like.

Any thoughts?
File Attachment(s):
VC16-6.vcp (215kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
Back to top
jdi000  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:44:17 PM(UTC)
jdi000

Rank: Administration

Joined: 7/29/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,862
United States

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 87 time(s) in 81 post(s)
Hi

What do you want to do with the holes after putting them in the manifold? be able to modify the diameters, move them around in the manifold?


Jason
Windows 11, 10
Back to top
jdi000  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:36:53 PM(UTC)
jdi000

Rank: Administration

Joined: 7/29/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,862
United States

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 87 time(s) in 81 post(s)
Hi, jt

For ultimate flexibility I would construct each fancy hole by using the cutout tool and putting fillets and chamfers in where needed.

Draw each bore diameter as concentric circle on the top plane and use the cutout tool on each diameter to the proper depth and then use the fillet and chamfer tools where needed. Then you can group the 2d circles together and move them as needed and the fancy hole will move where needed all at once

you can go into concept explorer and modify each cutout of each hole if you need to lengthen or change the diameter as well. See attached.


Regards

Jason
File Attachment(s):
VC16-6jtfx.vcp (115kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
Windows 11, 10
Back to top
jtfx  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:46:27 PM(UTC)
jtfx

Rank: Member

Joined: 3/16/2009(UTC)
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by: jdi000 Go to Quoted Post
Hi

What do you want to do with the holes after putting them in the manifold? be able to modify the diameters, move them around in the manifold?


Jason


Thanks for the quick response,

For making models of manifolds that are already designed, since I have a 2d drawing that shows were they all are, all I need to do is be able to dimension them.

The model I made as described in my first post above, I can't add the center mark dimension in sheet view, well actually in any view, as the cavity as I created it, doesn't contain any circles..

For manifolds that are not yet designed, then I need to be able to move cavities around as the circuit gets laid in. I need to be able to move them from one face to the other, countersink the whole cavity, etc to get the needed lands of the cavities to connect.
Back to top
jtfx  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:47:50 PM(UTC)
jtfx

Rank: Member

Joined: 3/16/2009(UTC)
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by: jdi000 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, jt

For ultimate flexibility I would construct each fancy hole by using the cutout tool and putting fillets and chamfers in where needed.

Draw each bore diameter as concentric circle on the top plane and use the cutout tool on each diameter to the proper depth and then use the fillet and chamfer tools where needed. Then you can group the 2d circles together and move them as needed and the fancy hole will move where needed all at once

you can go into concept explorer and modify each cutout of each hole if you need to lengthen or change the diameter as well. See attached.


Regards

Jason


Wow, thanks, I am going to play with the file you supplied. I'm sure I'll be back with some questions.
Edit:
I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong, but I can't seem to open the file you attached?
Back to top
ttrw  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, March 25, 2009 3:54:58 AM(UTC)
ttrw

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 4/1/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,583

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
I noticed that the file extension name is ".vcp" and not ".vc3". Changing the file to vc3 opens it in ViaCAD. What is the purpose of this 'p' Tim? We've been here before?
Back to top
ttrw  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, March 25, 2009 3:57:05 AM(UTC)
ttrw

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 4/1/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,583

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Here's the file (experiment)
File Attachment(s):
VC16-6jtfx.vc3 (409kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
Back to top
jdi000  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:53:52 AM(UTC)
jdi000

Rank: Administration

Joined: 7/29/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,862
United States

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 87 time(s) in 81 post(s)
Originally Posted by: jtfx Go to Quoted Post
Wow, thanks, I am going to play with the file you supplied. I'm sure I'll be back with some questions.
Edit:
I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong, but I can't seem to open the file you attached?



jt

Sorry I didn't ask what version you are using, You are using Viacad Pro v5 right? Here is file saved as version 5.

The vcp extension is ViaCAD Pro
The vc3 is Viacad


Using circles and the cutout tool will let you be able to move the cavities around but rotate might be more of a challenge, you can also select the circles along with the part when doing a model to sheet so the center dim will work on those.

Regards

Jason
File Attachment(s):
VC16-6jtfx.vc3 (115kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
Windows 11, 10
Back to top
jtfx  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:47:29 PM(UTC)
jtfx

Rank: Member

Joined: 3/16/2009(UTC)
Posts: 34
Thanks for the tips regarding the file type.

I was able to open the file, however I still must not be trying to work with it in the correct manner.

First I attempted to select the hole by clicking various places in the circle on the face of the block. I was able to select "Group 190488". I could also select by dragging from the left across it.

While it seems as though this hole would allow me to dimension it, it doesn't appear that there is an easy way to use this hole as a basis to make another hole. I tried to cut and paste it, option drag it, but never was I able to get a new hole?

Maybe what I am saying is obvious to those that know how to work the software, and I have an unrealistc expectaion.

I was hoping that everytime I needed a cavity, I wouldn't have to build it.
Back to top
ttrw  
#10 Posted : Thursday, March 26, 2009 8:19:18 AM(UTC)
ttrw

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 4/1/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,583

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Originally Posted by: jtfx Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the tips regarding the file type.


No problem jt :)

Originally Posted by: jtfx Go to Quoted Post

While it seems as though this hole would allow me to dimension it, it doesn't appear that there is an easy way to use this hole as a basis to make another hole. I tried to cut and paste it, option drag it, but never was I able to get a new hole?


This behaviour is pretty similar to Pro/E and Solidworks also. 2D CAD is quite different to 3D CAD as you will no doubt appreciate. Basically you have to start again, because the previous sketch entities have relationships, and when you copy and paste all you are doing is copying those relations (or "group 190488").

Originally Posted by: jtfx Go to Quoted Post

Maybe what I am saying is obvious to those that know how to work the software, and I have an unrealistc expectaion.

I was hoping that everytime I needed a cavity, I wouldn't have to build it.


There is quite a steep learning curve with any 3D CAD, Shark/ VC being no exception, but having stuff like "group 190488" to go by- that's unsurprising. I have enough troubles trying to remember my phone number, yet alone all these strings of numbers in VC! (attn, Tim!! ;) )! LOL!
Back to top
tmay  
#11 Posted : Thursday, March 26, 2009 8:35:44 AM(UTC)
tmay

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 278
Originally Posted by: jtfx Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the tips regarding the file type.

I was able to open the file, however I still must not be trying to work with it in the correct manner.

First I attempted to select the hole by clicking various places in the circle on the face of the block. I was able to select "Group 190488". I could also select by dragging from the left across it.

While it seems as though this hole would allow me to dimension it, it doesn't appear that there is an easy way to use this hole as a basis to make another hole. I tried to cut and paste it, option drag it, but never was I able to get a new hole?

Maybe what I am saying is obvious to those that know how to work the software, and I have an unrealistc expectaion.

I was hoping that everytime I needed a cavity, I wouldn't have to build it.


I'm using Shark, so I'm guessing that this feature is available under VC:

The last item under the Edit menu is Remove Links. It basically breaks history with the original instance of the feature.

A better way might be to Right Click on the feature you want to copy and duplicate it as an instance or with history. I can't remember exactly how they work, but this should be able to accomplish what you are looking at.

Sorry that I can't be of more help, but I'm in the second day of a three day class on BobCAD (which is really CAM) so I have to head out. Interestingly, the trainer is now a huge mac fan, and got busted by the boss for using his Macbook Pro with Parallels for the training., so he's require to use a PC laptop again. Bummer

the other tom
Back to top
ttrw  
#12 Posted : Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:00:51 AM(UTC)
ttrw

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 4/1/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,583

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Originally Posted by: tmay Go to Quoted Post
I'm using Shark, so I'm guessing that this feature is available under VC:

The last item under the Edit menu is Remove Links. It basically breaks history with the original instance of the feature.



Tom, I've only got "Force Resolve Links".

gwad- I want a copy of SFX!!! I want those parametrics!! VC feels really disabled without them :(:(
Back to top
Tim Olson  
#13 Posted : Thursday, March 26, 2009 2:56:40 PM(UTC)
Tim Olson

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/2/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,447
United States

Was thanked: 502 time(s) in 353 post(s)
>>I've only got "Force Resolve Links".

Tom
Remove Links is in ViaCAD as well. You need to have something selected for it to turn on.
Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
Back to top
ttrw  
#14 Posted : Thursday, March 26, 2009 3:59:31 PM(UTC)
ttrw

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 4/1/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,583

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Thanks Tim :)
Back to top
billbedford  
#15 Posted : Friday, March 27, 2009 2:40:13 AM(UTC)
billbedford

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/19/2007(UTC)
Posts: 186
Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post
There is quite a steep learning curve with any 3D CAD, Shark/ VC being no exception, but having stuff like "group 190488" to go by- that's unsurprising. I have enough troubles trying to remember my phone number, yet alone all these strings of numbers in VC! (attn, Tim!! ;) )! LOL!


You can rename anything in the history tree.
Back to top
jol  
#16 Posted : Friday, March 27, 2009 3:24:11 AM(UTC)
jol

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/26/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,156

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Agree Bill - it's time we abstracted these numbers into much simpler ones for the user !
Back to top
ttrw  
#17 Posted : Friday, March 27, 2009 5:08:50 AM(UTC)
ttrw

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 4/1/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,583

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Originally Posted by: billbedford Go to Quoted Post
You can rename anything in the history tree.


Yes- of course you can. But why have mobile phone-length numbers there in the first place? All this does, is further slows ones workflow down even more :(

This system needs to be far more logical.
Back to top
jtfx  
#18 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2009 9:47:13 AM(UTC)
jtfx

Rank: Member

Joined: 3/16/2009(UTC)
Posts: 34
I am back to playing with the software, and I am not having a lot of luck.

The software I am using is the viacad pro version 5 for Mac trial.

My "non" pro trial version was v6, but when I decided I needed the "add surface" command, I downloaded the pro version.

Anyway, I can not get the center mark dimension to show up in sheet view.

In the attached file I made the right two holes by extruding a circle into the block. I can add a center mark dimension in the 3-d view, but id doesn't appear visible to me in the sheet view.

The two left most holes I made with the simple hole tool. I can't seem to center mark it in 3-d or sheet view. Per this thread, http://forum.punchcad.com/showthread.php?t=1746 I held the option key while creating the smaller of the two left most holes, but I can't tell that did anything different.


I don't know if the drawing will open in the same form I left it, but I do have a sheet view layer that you can look at to see if there is something wrong with the way I created it.
File Attachment(s):
HoleTest.vcp (107kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
Back to top
unique  
#19 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2009 12:40:17 PM(UTC)
unique

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 6/24/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591
Originally Posted by: jtfx Go to Quoted Post
I am back to playing with the software, and I am not having a lot of luck.

The software I am using is the viacad pro version 5 for Mac trial.

My "non" pro trial version was v6, but when I decided I needed the "add surface" command, I downloaded the pro version.

Anyway, I can not get the center mark dimension to show up in sheet view.

In the attached file I made the right two holes by extruding a circle into the block. I can add a center mark dimension in the 3-d view, but id doesn't appear visible to me in the sheet view.

The two left most holes I made with the simple hole tool. I can't seem to center mark it in 3-d or sheet view. Per this thread, http://forum.punchcad.com/showthread.php?t=1746 I held the option key while creating the smaller of the two left most holes, but I can't tell that did anything different.


I don't know if the drawing will open in the same form I left it, but I do have a sheet view layer that you can look at to see if there is something wrong with the way I created it.


Hi jtfx

The Center Mark tool looks for a circle....Viacad 2d/3d & Pro does not output true geometry into the drawing sheet therefore apparently cannot be done.

Depending on what you ened it for..you can either draw lines using the intelligence & snaps from the model OR you can flatten view and draw arcs by 3points and then use them....

We need to dig deeper for SFX for that luxury:D
Back to top
jdi000  
#20 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2009 2:30:15 PM(UTC)
jdi000

Rank: Administration

Joined: 7/29/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,862
United States

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 87 time(s) in 81 post(s)
Originally Posted by: jtfx Go to Quoted Post
I am back to playing with the software, and I am not having a lot of luck.

The software I am using is the viacad pro version 5 for Mac trial.

My "non" pro trial version was v6, but when I decided I needed the "add surface" command, I downloaded the pro version.

Anyway, I can not get the center mark dimension to show up in sheet view.

In the attached file I made the right two holes by extruding a circle into the block. I can add a center mark dimension in the 3-d view, but id doesn't appear visible to me in the sheet view.

The two left most holes I made with the simple hole tool. I can't seem to center mark it in 3-d or sheet view. Per this thread, http://forum.punchcad.com/showthread.php?t=1746 I held the option key while creating the smaller of the two left most holes, but I can't tell that did anything different.


I don't know if the drawing will open in the same form I left it, but I do have a sheet view layer that you can look at to see if there is something wrong with the way I created it.




Hi jtfx

There is a bug here it seems where the holes located on the xz & yz plane are not displaying the center dim mark, I am getting half the mark but not the vertical part. If your holes were on the xy plane they would display. This is only happening on polyline edges.

The option click during hole creation is to create a center point when the hole is created.

ViaCAD & ViaCAD Pro draws a polyline approximation instead of precise curves in the sheet views but it will accurately dimension a radius or diameter dimension the program pulls the precise dimension corresponding to the polyline representation of each curve, and the center dim mark should definitely work when everything is running good.


Regards

Jason
File Attachment(s):
holescendimtest.vc3 (321kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
jdi000 attached the following image(s):
dimcennotdisplay.jpg (14kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
Windows 11, 10
Back to top
Users browsing this topic
Guest (3)
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF.NET 2.1.2 | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET