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lgrijalva  
#1 Posted : Sunday, April 11, 2010 2:57:59 PM(UTC)
lgrijalva

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I been trying to do this in shark, so i have use the thicken solid tool first an then shell the part, that, of course, have a lot of inconveniences.

All other modeling software that i been used have the option to invert the direction of the shell inside and outside, unless i missed something, there is no way to do this on Shark.

So an option for invert the shell direction is really necessary. I think it is by far more useful that the "keep the core" option.

Any one else agree on this?


Luis G.
Luis G
Industrial Designer
MacOSX Ventura 13.6.4
User since Concepts Unlimited
SharkCad 14
www.miditec.com.mx
www.diferro.com
blowlamp  
#2 Posted : Sunday, April 11, 2010 3:36:40 PM(UTC)
blowlamp

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Luis.

If you shell the outside of a part, isn't it the core that you are left with?
I mean, if you want to remove the outside of a body, why aren't you shelling it and just keeping the core?
I hope I haven't misunderstood you.

Martin.
zumer  
#3 Posted : Sunday, April 11, 2010 5:43:44 PM(UTC)
zumer

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Object info for a shelled object gives a data entry for each face, so you can use different shell offsets after the fact, but not with thickness, so I agree. Other softwares I use shell inwards and outwards, but don't allow different face thicknesses as simply as Shark/VC shell does. If the behaviour of the thickness tool was harmonised with the shell tool's features, I'd be happy with that, too.
The "keeping the core" option is redundant for shelling outwards, a copy of the original IS the core in that case, but it can save some steps shelling inwards, for example to trim a solid that's going to be added to the shell after the shelling action.
lgrijalva  
#4 Posted : Sunday, April 11, 2010 10:37:49 PM(UTC)
lgrijalva

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Originally Posted by: blowlamp Go to Quoted Post
Luis.

If you shell the outside of a part, isn't it the core that you are left with?
I mean, if you want to remove the outside of a body, why aren't you shelling it and just keeping the core?
I hope I haven't misunderstood you.

Martin.


Actually what i want to do is the outside shell, that can not be done, if you keep the core, (holding option key on mac), what it does is the inward thickness of the model and keep the part that should be removed, but there is no way to shell the part outside, like the effect of a negative value on the data entry of the object info, but this give an error.

LG
Luis G
Industrial Designer
MacOSX Ventura 13.6.4
User since Concepts Unlimited
SharkCad 14
www.miditec.com.mx
www.diferro.com
blowlamp  
#5 Posted : Monday, April 12, 2010 2:50:08 AM(UTC)
blowlamp

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Luis.
Sorry, but I really don't understand what you are trying to do here. I don't see how you can shell to the outside of a part as there would be no material for the tool to work on. If you are just trying to make a larger/smaller version, then would Scale or perhaps Offset Face be a better choice of tools?

Martin.
NickB  
#6 Posted : Monday, April 12, 2010 3:33:12 PM(UTC)
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I think that what he wants to do is shell an object AND grow it at the same time so that if you started with a cube that was 10 X 10 X 10 and you wanted a wall of 1 the final object would be 12 X 12 X 11 with an inside open volume of 10 X 10 X 10.

If it was me I would just start with the right sized object and then shell, or use differential scale to get what I wanted and then shell.
Shark FX 9 build 1143
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3.6 GHz Core i7, 8GB, GTX 760 2GB

matter.cc
Steve.M  
#7 Posted : Monday, April 12, 2010 4:32:25 PM(UTC)
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I would agree that having the option for out/in/center shelling can be useful and a number of CAD do have that.

In VC/Shark, I simply remove the face(s) for the opening, then use the Thicken_solid which allows direction.


- Steve
zumer  
#8 Posted : Monday, April 12, 2010 9:11:50 PM(UTC)
zumer

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Shelling maintains a constant wall thickness, scaling up an irregular object doesn't constrain the offset in the same way, any more than subtracting a reduced scale object does to shell inwards. What's inconsistent to me is that thicken does effectively shell outwards, but doesn't result in an internal cavity, so there ought to be a default "subtract original" and "separate original" option for instances that don't have open faces, in keeping with the shell tool behaviour, plus the differential offset entry in object info.
lgrijalva  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:49:12 PM(UTC)
lgrijalva

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Originally Posted by: blowlamp Go to Quoted Post
Luis.
Sorry, but I really don't understand what you are trying to do here. I don't see how you can shell to the outside of a part as there would be no material for the tool to work on. If you are just trying to make a larger/smaller version, then would Scale or perhaps Offset Face be a better choice of tools?

Martin.


NickB Knows
Originally Posted by: NickB Go to Quoted Post
I think that what he wants to do is shell an object AND grow it at the same time so that if you started with a cube that was 10 X 10 X 10 and you wanted a wall of 1 the final object would be 12 X 12 X 11 with an inside open volume of 10 X 10 X 10.


This is what i Mean

Originally Posted by: Steve.M Go to Quoted Post
I would agree that having the option for out/in/center shelling can be useful and a number of CAD do have that.

In VC/Shark, I simply remove the face(s) for the opening, then use the Thicken_solid which allows direction.


- Steve


This is the way i been solving this but it take about four extra operations:
converto to surfaces
delete one
join the remaining surfaces into a open model
thick the solid

Some times, won't work this way

Any one else here want/need this feature implemented?

Luis G.
Luis G
Industrial Designer
MacOSX Ventura 13.6.4
User since Concepts Unlimited
SharkCad 14
www.miditec.com.mx
www.diferro.com
Tem  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 11:20:26 PM(UTC)
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Curious, what kind of parts are you making?
zumer  
#11 Posted : Thursday, April 15, 2010 1:40:50 AM(UTC)
zumer

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Originally Posted by: lgrijalva Go to Quoted Post
NickB Knows


This is what i Mean



This is the way i been solving this but it take about four extra operations:
converto to surfaces
delete one
join the remaining surfaces into a open model
thick the solid

Some times, won't work this way

Any one else here want/need this feature implemented?

Luis G.


Try this, Luis. Copy in place, then marquee select the model with the thicken tool, then subtract the copy. A little simpler, doesn't need conversion to surface, nor removal of a face if the object is closed. Interesting, and another inconsistency, that a negative figure in the box shells inward for the thicken tool. Actually, doesn't shell inwards, but offsets the face inwards. That's a heap of fun, it offsets an internal face outwards too, and if the figure takes it through the surface, it opens the shell! I haven't had experience with high-end apps, but that has potential to do a lot that simple shell won't.
blowlamp  
#12 Posted : Thursday, April 15, 2010 1:57:23 AM(UTC)
blowlamp

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Luis.

Thanks for the clarification, I had not come across this use of shelling before. Have you tried drag selecting the solid when using the Offset Face tool and then Shelling? I tried some reasonably complicated parts and it seems to work as you wish, although I do understand it's not the extension to Shelling that you have asked for.

Martin.
lgrijalva  
#13 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 3:55:34 PM(UTC)
lgrijalva

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Originally Posted by: Tem Go to Quoted Post
Curious, what kind of parts are you making?


Most of them are sheet metal kiosk, atm's, cabinets, and internal hardware, and several times i had to make a enclosure or holder for a part that i use as start reference and had to thicken or "negative shell" the desired model.

Originally Posted by: zumer Go to Quoted Post
Try this, Luis. Copy in place, then marquee select the model with the thicken tool, then subtract the copy. A little simpler, doesn't need conversion to surface, nor removal of a face if the object is closed. Interesting, and another inconsistency, that a negative figure in the box shells inward for the thicken tool. Actually, doesn't shell inwards, but offsets the face inwards. That's a heap of fun, it offsets an internal face outwards too, and if the figure takes it through the surface, it opens the shell! I haven't had experience with high-end apps, but that has potential to do a lot that simple shell won't.


Yes, i done some times this way , as well without copy, just thicken the model and then shell it with the open face that i Need.

Originally Posted by: blowlamp Go to Quoted Post
Luis.

Thanks for the clarification, I had not come across this use of shelling before. Have you tried drag selecting the solid when using the Offset Face tool and then Shelling? I tried some reasonably complicated parts and it seems to work as you wish, although I do understand it's not the extension to Shelling that you have asked for.

Martin.


I do several times, I am agree that some how the things can be done and Shark have a very nice collection of tools for modeling, I just pointing at the convenience of have a tool that I had seen (and use) in other software that it is quite useful, and save some extra steps.

I am kind of lazy
:)
Luis G
Industrial Designer
MacOSX Ventura 13.6.4
User since Concepts Unlimited
SharkCad 14
www.miditec.com.mx
www.diferro.com
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