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ACIS Error When Using Skin Solid (#3110)
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mlochala  
#21 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 10:07:43 AM(UTC)
mlochala

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Thanks, I'll give that a try!

Build 852.
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Steve.M  
#22 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 10:10:59 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mlochala Go to Quoted Post
Build 852.


That build should be OK.

Be careful when segmenting, it is (too) easy to add extra cuts accidentally.


- Steve
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mlochala  
#23 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 10:11:48 AM(UTC)
mlochala

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Wonder if it's a graphics card issue???

I deleted your skin and tried to re-skin and got another shell. A verification says the solid is not closed, but will not allow a repair.

Any other suggestions?
File Attachment(s):
Skin 1 Edited.vc3 (429kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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Steve.M  
#24 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 10:27:16 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mlochala Go to Quoted Post
Wonder if it's a graphics card issue???

I deleted your skin and tried to re-skin and got another shell. A verification says the solid is not closed, but will not allow a repair.

Any other suggestions?


A bug has been introduced on an update

I have just checked. When I built that model I used 2d/3d. On checking the version of 2d/3d I have installed is build 833. I have just check in VC pro build 856 and that will not produce a solid. What I had to do was to (add) use "cover surface" on each end profile, then use "stitch to solid" to stitch the skin and end covers.

I will report the bug.

- Steve
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mlochala  
#25 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 3:20:53 PM(UTC)
mlochala

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Thank you so much for your help, Steve! I've learned a lot in these past 24 hours!

How long before the bug is fixed, or will it be? Should remove ViaCAD and re-install the original? And what will I be giving up by going back to the original build of 2D/3D V6?
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Steve.M  
#26 Posted : Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:01:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mlochala Go to Quoted Post
Thank you so much for your help, Steve! I've learned a lot in these past 24 hours!
Happy I could help
Originally Posted by: mlochala Go to Quoted Post

How long before the bug is fixed, or will it be?
If you had asked this 6 months (or so) ago, then I would of said it would be fixed quite quickly. But now with V7 of shark released, your guess is as good as mine. I did send a PM to Tim concerning this bug, and I have seen him check out this thread/attachments, but I have had no reply to the PM/ bug report.
Originally Posted by: mlochala Go to Quoted Post

Should remove ViaCAD and re-install the original? And what will I be giving up by going back to the original build of 2D/3D V6?
Which build number do you have originally? You would need to check what as changed between your original (build)version and current build, info can be found by searching the beta forum.


- Steve
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jdi000  
#27 Posted : Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:33:14 PM(UTC)
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Hi Guys


Looking at file skin 1 edited, looking at the last 2 profiles it appears that at 8 decimal places the y point last 4 digits of some intersections is not the same. I changed the points to be the same 8 decimal points and redrew the bottom line so its only 1 segment. Then the first 5 segments skin solid. the last profile appears to have a bad spline either top or one of the right left sides, so to repair ( I did the following on the last profile.)

1. Copy the profile, move to new location
2. extrude to solid , check object and hit repair
3. change object solid to surfaces
4. delete the sides and face except for the one at the curve you extruded from.
5. use explode edge on the remaining surface to get a new profile
6. group profile and move back onto the old profile (i used the bottom line center point as reference.
7. skin solid hold shift and pick solids starting from the small to large profile.


@ Steve - Even the solid you posted checked with errors. I think the skin solid tool works but the geometry of profiles needs to be good.


Regards

Jason
File Attachment(s):
Skin 1 Edited (repaired ji).vc3 (1,422kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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Steve.M  
#28 Posted : Sunday, April 18, 2010 7:00:15 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: jdi000 Go to Quoted Post
@ Steve - Even the solid you posted checked with errors.


In 2d/3d (build 833) and VC pro (build 856) the model (posted) does show error when checked, however, pressing repair repairs the solid.

In VC pro build 856, no errors are shown (after attempted skin solid) only that the solid is not closed, with no option to repair.

I have lofted/skinned those curves in various other 3D CAD and all will create a solid without a need to go to 8 decimal places of checking curve construction. A CAD that is so intolerant to such possible minor construction errors is not worth (IMHO) using. It can cause a lot of hair loss due to pulling it out.


- Steve
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jdi000  
#29 Posted : Sunday, April 18, 2010 7:20:49 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Steve.M Go to Quoted Post
In 2d/3d (build 833) and VC pro (build 856) the model (posted) does show error when checked, however, pressing repair repairs the solid.
- Steve



Steve see attached pic opened in VC 2d/3d b856 & shark lt 853. Units set to inches...





Originally Posted by: Steve.M Go to Quoted Post


I have lofted/skinned those curves in various other 3D CAD and all will create a solid without a need to go to 8 decimal places of checking curve construction. A CAD that is so intolerant to such possible minor construction errors is not worth (IMHO) using. It can cause a lot of hair loss due to pulling it out.


- Steve



How did you export the curves... for other cad systems file type?

It seems that these splines are corrupt somehow vs the cad system being intolerant, but an intersection point should be accurate (imho) to 8 places... Maybe something else is going on here...

Thanks

Jason
jdi000 attached the following image(s):
check object report.jpg (94kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
check object report 853 sharklt.PNG (125kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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Windows 11, 10
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Steve.M  
#30 Posted : Sunday, April 18, 2010 7:35:59 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Hi Jason,

Originally Posted by: jdi000 Go to Quoted Post
but an intersection point should be accurate (imho) to 8 places...


What industry do you work in?

I do work to microns (0.00003937") but not to 8 places which would be nanometer (0.000000039")


- Steve
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jdi000  
#31 Posted : Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:03:44 PM(UTC)
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Steve

Yes, I understand what you are saying about 8 decimal place, but the profiles posted above are off at intersections at the 5 decimal place. If endpoints are created by using snaps then they should be accurate to 8 decimal places... either these splines are corrupt some how or they curves were not snapped to end points...

I could not even cover surface on the last profile till I repaired it... so i would not expect it to skin solid.

The error messages I posted eluded to the idea that points do not lie faces.

So I still think that the skin solid tool works as intended, although it may require more accuracy in the sketch profiles to generate good results.

Regards

Jason



Regards

Jason
jdi000 attached the following image(s):
y values.PNG (41kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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Steve.M  
#32 Posted : Sunday, April 18, 2010 9:08:23 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Hi Jason,

Originally Posted by: jdi000 Go to Quoted Post
I could not even cover surface on the last profile till I repaired it... so i would not expect it to skin solid.



Which model are you checking?

The model I posted, the last profile will cover surface with no error reported (pic01)

The original model posted will also cover surface the last profile with no error reported (pic02)

Checked in VC pro 856


Regards to you also,

- Steve
Steve.M attached the following image(s):
01.png (7kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
02.png (11kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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mlochala  
#33 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 3:14:46 AM(UTC)
mlochala

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Posts: 140
Hey jdi000, thank you so much for your help as well. A couple of questions:

Originally Posted by: jdi000 Go to Quoted Post

Looking at file skin 1 edited, looking at the last 2 profiles it appears that at 8 decimal places the y point last 4 digits of some intersections is not the same. I changed the points to be the same 8 decimal points and redrew the bottom line so its only 1 segment. Then the first 5 segments skin solid. the last profile appears to have a bad spline either top or one of the right left sides, so to repair ( I did the following on the last profile.)


How did you check this and how might I do the same on future projects? More importantly, how could I have avoided this error?

Perhaps some background should shed light on this error. I'm trying to model a particular object (I'll show it when I get it done! ;)) that has some very complex curves, a real challenge for a CAD rookie such as myself. The way I decided to tackle the project was to build the model "Lego-style" to get as close as I could to final model. Then, I created a series of surfaces and used them to slice the model into pieces. Finally, to create the initial profiles, I took each of those pieces and exploded the leading edges. (I now know it would have been much, much simpler to just use the Surface/Solid intersect tool.)

Once I had those initial profiles made with the exploded edges, I begin to modify the profiles to match what they should be in the final model. My plan then was to delete the original solid and then Skin Solid over the new profiles. It hasn't quite worked out the way I wanted, obviously.

So, if this is not a program bug (I'm relieved!), then how can I make sure this doesn't happen again? What are the rules for using the Skin Solid tool that are obviously not included in the manual?

Thanks again guys for all your help!!!
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jdi000  
#34 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 3:18:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Steve.M Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jason,



Which model are you checking?

The model I posted, the last profile will cover surface with no error reported (pic01)

The original model posted will also cover surface the last profile with no error reported (pic02)

Checked in VC pro 856


Regards to you also,

- Steve




Hi Steve

This is strange I cannot cover the last 2 profiles ViaCAD 2d/3d 856 the largest ones on any of the files in this thread skin, skin 1 edited, skin troubles. maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me but here are pics.

Regards

Jason
jdi000 attached the following image(s):
pic1.PNG (75kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
pic 2.PNG (80kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
pic 3.PNG (84kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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Windows 11, 10
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jdi000  
#35 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 3:30:49 AM(UTC)
jdi000

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Originally Posted by: mlochala Go to Quoted Post
Hey jdi000, thank you so much for your help as well. A couple of questions:

How did you check this and how might I do the same on future projects? More importantly, how could I have avoided this error?


I am not sure how to answer this, I don't think you need to check and rechecked every curve, but maybe check your solid before sectioning and exploding edges...


Originally Posted by: mlochala Go to Quoted Post

Perhaps some background should shed light on this error. I'm trying to model a particular object (I'll show it when I get it done! ;)) that has some very complex curves, a real challenge for a CAD rookie such as myself. The way I decided to tackle the project was to build the model "Lego-style" to get as close as I could to final model. Then, I created a series of surfaces and used them to slice the model into pieces. Finally, to create the initial profiles, I took each of those pieces and exploded the leading edges. (I now know it would have been much, much simpler to just use the Surface/Solid intersect tool.)

Once I had those initial profiles made with the exploded edges, I begin to modify the profiles to match what they should be in the final model. My plan then was to delete the original solid and then Skin Solid over the new profiles. It hasn't quite worked out the way I wanted, obviously.

So, if this is not a program bug (I'm relieved!), then how can I make sure this doesn't happen again? What are the rules for using the Skin Solid tool that are obviously not included in the manual?

Thanks again guys for all your help!!!




I think you followed the tool ok, ie making groups, selecting groups in the order, etc.


Regards

Jason
Windows 11, 10
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Steve.M  
#36 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 4:49:33 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: jdi000 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Steve

This is strange I cannot cover the last 2 profiles ViaCAD 2d/3d 856 the largest ones on any of the files in this thread skin, skin 1 edited, skin troubles. maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me but here are pics.

Regards

Jason


Hi Jason,

Well, I am not sure what is going on.

The 2d/3d version I have installed is build 833 and that produced the solid I posted (and the mov showing the solid made). Yes, there where errors in the solid, but the solid was still created and a repair could easily be made.
In VC pro 856, the solid is made but open, although each profile can be cover surface and can be solid extruded.

I think time for me to call it a day with VC.

Regards,

- Steve
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mlochala  
#37 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 6:51:24 AM(UTC)
mlochala

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Is there a prize for stumping the experts? LOL!
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zumer  
#38 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 7:08:11 AM(UTC)
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In VC 856, I'm able to skin surface all of the profiles, but those last two profiles, for whatever reason, won't even give me cover surfaces. But they will extrude as a solid, so I extruded a short solid, converted it to surfaces and deleted all but the recalcitrant cover surface. Combined with the skin surface and the cover surface on the first profile it stitched to give me the right result.

Shark V7 gave me an open shell, but all covers produced well and stitch was no hitch, which bodes well for VC7 when it arrives.
zumer attached the following image(s):
skinned and stitched.PNG (56kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
V7.PNG (82kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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Steve.M  
#39 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 7:09:06 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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I have been informed this will be fixed in the next build.


- Steve
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mlochala  
#40 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 8:38:35 PM(UTC)
mlochala

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Originally Posted by: Steve.M Go to Quoted Post
I have been informed this will be fixed in the next build.


- Steve


In the next build of V6 or V7?
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