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Steve.M  
#1 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 2:20:04 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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I have been meaning to post about this for a while, there as been another thread showing concerns but as that as just died away, then I thought time to post my questions/concerns.

Interpolate spline.

The default behavior made when closing a spline, this I have never understood in VC, certainly as attempting to correct/change the end positions to align as required is, well, can be difficult at best.

Pic1 show an 8 point interpolate closed spline. This outcome is not wanted,.. is there another way to close the spline? Yes, I can edit the spline and set the start/end points so that the joining angle is the same, and works OK for a planer(2d) spline, but:-
Creating a 3d closed interpolate spline. As you will see from pic2, again the closed spline is not what I would expect, I can again go into the object info and change the start/end angles but attempting this will not give what is required.(pic03 / pic04).
I have always had the expectation that a closed spline will be closed and all points on that spline by default will act on the spline equally, but this is not the case with VC.

So, I imported the curve from another application that does close the spline as expected and imported that into VC (pic05), but, on segmenting the spline (not at the join) then the actual spline is split at the join with loss of curvature/tangency (pic06),... not workable as there is no way to re-align curvature/tangency of the endpoints accurately.

- Steve
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Steve.M  
#2 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 2:37:07 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Closed control point spline.

On 2d or 3d closed spline there is a problem. As you will see from pic01 the spline is closed on,.. what,.. a knot? Certainly not expected/wanted and find no way to change this (is there?).
Pic 02 shows the same closed cp spline imported which is what I would expect, but again, if I segment that imported spline, the curvature/tangency is lost

- Steve
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jlm  
#3 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 11:25:46 PM(UTC)
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Very good work Steve, to simply show closed spline flaws.
I fully support your request.
JL
jol  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:16:51 AM(UTC)
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Yes Steve .. I have to agree with your comments too ! The current behavior is not right

Additionally (and as noted frequently), I find it ever irritating that I cannot pick up the endpoint of a spline and close it myself : a spline endpoint will simply not snap to it's (other) endpoint
Steve.M  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:16:58 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post
Additionally (and as noted frequently), I find it ever irritating that I cannot pick up the endpoint of a spline and close it myself : a spline endpoint will simply not snap to it's (other) endpoint



Hi jol,

To close an open spline, select the spline- show points. Select "connect" then click on the 2 end control points, it will close,.. but make sure you click the control points and not the spline. The first endpoint you select will stay in position, the second point will then move.


- Steve
Steve.M  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:39:29 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: jlm Go to Quoted Post
simply show closed spline flaws.


Hi JL,

What I do not understand is that I have seen posts that state that when you join 2 open splines together, then the join retains curvature, apparently this is needed for acis (I cannot find the post at the moment), so, when you join 2 curves there is a blend. But we look at a closed CP spline which certainly does not keep curvature.


- Steve
jol  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 8:07:09 AM(UTC)
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Thanks Steve but I have workarounds .. I am just asking for normal snapping behavior
Steve.M  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 8:25:21 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Steve but I have workarounds .. I am just asking for normal snapping behavior


Ah, right, sorry.

What are you using, the translate, that will just snap the endpoint together, or have you found another way.
jol  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 9:02:34 AM(UTC)
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Hi Steve .. I didn't realise that translate allows a snap to the other end !! Thanks

I usually make the point active by fence selecting it - then I drag it onto the other end point .. there seems to be a problem with snapping when you do so

Normally I place a point - and then snap to that

Anyway .. hopefully Tim can make it behave as other points do !?
Steve.M  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 9:24:41 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post
I didn't realise that translate allows a snap to the other end !!


Hi jol,

you have to "show points" - "Translate" and snap the end control points together.


- Steve
jol  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 9:33:54 AM(UTC)
jol

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>> you have to "show points" - "Translate" and snap the end control points together.

I think that's my point .. I shouldn't have to show points - and I should be able to move with the Select tool .. as well as the translate tool

I should be able to select, move and snap a start point to an end point as I would any other
Steve.M  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 10:37:38 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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I am not sure how that would work. how would VC or shark know what it is you want to move. Selecting the endpoint of a curve could just be that you want to move the full curve?

I just press ctrl+d then use the translate to move the control point.

EDIT.

I wonder if what you are looking for could be added to the deep select?
jol  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:12:20 AM(UTC)
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Sorry Steve - I think I miscommunicate

I want to move a spline endpoint to it's start point

I want to do it just like I move any other spline endpoint - using the normal select tool

First .. I box-fence-select around the area of the endpoint until the endpoint lights-up

Then I just drag-move it to where I want it - normally it snaps to exactly where I want it !

On this occasion however, alas - it does not .. it's a simple exception that needs recifying

I shouldn't need to alter my method just because I want to snap to a particular object type (when all other object types are included)

Fortunately, my extensive Hollywood training allows me to make this short, yet captivating movie to demonstrate my problem

Again - I am aware that there are workarounds Steve .. I appreciate that !

Damn - forgot to add the credits !
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Steve.M  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:42:41 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Hi jol,

Unfortunately the mov wont play. but I bet its worth an Oscar.

But the penny has dropped and can understand what you now mean. So yes, I agree.

EDIT
You can select the endpoint as you say, and then you can use the translate (you dont need to show points)


- Steve
Steve.M  
#15 Posted : Monday, May 4, 2009 8:57:13 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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I was hoping for some possible answer to the problems shown in the first 2 posts on thread.


- Steve
ttrw  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, May 5, 2009 12:45:20 AM(UTC)
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I watched the movie- so it must be a Mac thang ;)

Tim hasn't answered.....so, by my logic, it must....

err, no scratch that, it's a bug! :mad: A very annoying bug too! :p :mad:
Tim Olson  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, May 5, 2009 11:52:24 AM(UTC)
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>>Interpolate spline.

>>The default behavior made when closing a spline, this I have never >>understood in VC, certainly as attempting to correct/change the end >>positions to align as required is, well, can be difficult at best.

Closing a spline currently preserves the start tangent and making the end tangent match. In the video below, I'm exploring using an average slope based on the points before and after the shared point. This seems to produce a smoother spline (relative to curvature distribution...)

The video also show some improvements to dynamically creating splines.

http://www.csi-concepts.com/Dem...harkFXV6/splineClose.mov


Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
Tim Olson  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, May 5, 2009 11:53:49 AM(UTC)
Tim Olson

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>>Interpolate spline.

>>The default behavior made when closing a spline, this I have never >>understood in VC, certainly as attempting to correct/change the end >>positions to align as required is, well, can be difficult at best.

Closing a spline currently preserves the start tangent and making the end tangent match. In the video below, I'm exploring using an average slope based on the points before and after the shared point. This seems to produce a smoother spline (relative to curvature distribution...)

The video also show some improvements to dynamically creating splines.

http://www.csi-concepts.com/Dem...harkFXV6/splineClose.mov

Thanks for bringing up Steve...

Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
Steve.M  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, May 5, 2009 6:35:57 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post
Closing a spline currently preserves the start tangent and making the end tangent match.
Yes, I understand what is happening as it does put this forward in the help files.

Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post

In the video below, I'm exploring using an average slope based on the points before and after the shared point. This seems to produce a smoother spline (relative to curvature distribution...)
That is what I am actually used to seeing as default behavior in other cad systems I have used.

Thanks for looking into this and hope to see this option available in a future update/patch.


Regards,

- Steve
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