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JoeM  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, April 18, 2007 7:41:43 PM(UTC)
JoeM

Rank: Junior Member

Joined: 4/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 12

I recently purchased ViaCad and have been playing around trying to see what it can do. So far, it seems it can do quite a bit for the money. However, I have hit on a few snags, hopefully due to my ignorance and not limitations in the program. The biggest of these is: How do you get a draw view to show an accurate (that is, containing curves & circles) 2D line drawing of an object? The polyline approximation works as described, but can not be dimensioned. The various rendered views can be dimensioned (although they don't work as well as the polyline views - for example, using the center option does not center the object like it does for a polyline view, and zooming changes the location and scale of the rendered object in the drawing view). But how do you get to an accurate line drawing? I've read the chapters in the manual a few times, but something is eluding me. I would appreciate some help with this.

Sincerely,

JoeM
JoeM  
#2 Posted : Friday, April 20, 2007 6:46:21 AM(UTC)
JoeM

Rank: Junior Member

Joined: 4/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 12

I don't know if anyone is out there, but I worked on this some more, and this is what I found. All of the rendered drawing views do not display properly; they do not appear centered when they should, and zooming in and out changes the location of the object in the drawing view window. Actually, I should say the apparent, or displayed, location. In some sense the object is centered correctly; I know this because I happened to move the cursor across an apparently empty draw view window and the snaps indicated that the object was there and centered, although I couldn't see it. Finally, the object reverted to a line drawing in the correct (centered) location and scale when I flattened it (which answers my main question above). I should mention that in addition to the part being off center, there were other artifacts displayed, including large black areas, distortion of the part, etc.

I can't believe that a bug of this nature could go unnoticed, its the first thing a new user will try. Either I am doing something wrong or I have a corrupt installation. Can someone please give me some advice before I try to uninstall/reinstall? Has anyone else seen this problem and can they tell me how they got around it?

Sincerely,

JoeM
jol  
#3 Posted : Friday, April 20, 2007 2:08:37 PM(UTC)
jol

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Posts: 2,156

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Joe, I'd like to see a review of model to sheet .. you can use it and most of the time you can get what you want, but it certainly has some weirdness as you say.

Unfortunately, a lot of it is tough to pin down .. so do us all a favour .. if you have very specific steps to repeat your issue .. document them here & hopefully Todd will prioritise them for the developers
JoeM  
#4 Posted : Friday, April 20, 2007 9:28:34 PM(UTC)
JoeM

Rank: Junior Member

Joined: 4/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 12

First, thanks to all who have replied, I appreciate your input.

Scott,

I believe you are mistaken about ViaCad's ability to create arcs/circles/splines using the "Flatten" option. As I mentioned in my second post, I have already got this to work by applying the "Flatten" command to any of the rendered (flat, gouraud, phong) drawing views. The biggest remaining problem is that the rendered views are not displaying correctly. The workaround I have come up with is to set up the drawing views using the polyline approximation, and get them looking the way I want. Then I can change them by editing the drawing view's properties to any of the rendered views. They will no longer display correctly, but when I "Flatten" them they will revert to correctly scaled and centered line drawings that preserve arcs, circles, ellipses, etc.

Jol,

For Punch! developers: The problem I am describing manifests itself immediately if you open the example file of the paper towel holder with the 4 drawing views. As you zoom in and out, the apparent location and scale of the rendered paper towel holder changes, making it impossible to set up the drawing parameters correctly. If you pass your cursor over the drawing views, even when they are apparently empty, you will see that snap points are detected, indicating the objects are "really" there. When you "Flatten" the drawing views, the line drawings resume the correct scale and location. It is clear to me that the rendered draw views are not displaying correctly, at least on my system. Please confirm whether I have a corrupt installation or if it is a bug.
JoeM  
#5 Posted : Monday, April 30, 2007 6:42:24 PM(UTC)
JoeM

Rank: Junior Member

Joined: 4/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 12

Scott,

Unfortunately, it seems you were right about ViaCad's inability to generate useful 2D drawings. After more experimentation I see that what I thought were "flattened" objects were still 3D - it just broke the connection with the model from which the draw views were generated.

I'm pretty dissappointed that ViaCad can't do this; Its the main reason I bought it. I suppose "3D to 2D" can be taken to mean polyline only 2D, but this ceases to be a useful CAD drawing, and for my purposes is worthless. I thought it was reasonable to assume that automatically generated 2D CAD drawings could be dimensioned. While not technically a lie, advertising this product as having this capability is very misleading. Let me know if I am wrong about what the software can do, or if you plan to add this capability in a patch. Otherwise I must remain a dissatisfied customer; what good is a modeler that can't generate working drawings?

Sincerely,

JoeM
jol  
#6 Posted : Monday, April 30, 2007 7:11:10 PM(UTC)
jol

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Cant select a draw view - about half the time .. why ?

make a cube

copy it

make a draw view

select the draw view

.. you can't (about 50% of the time)

[if you can select it, you can paste in geometry for a drawing of it]

So why cant I select it by clicking on OR in the dotted box

If I do this in Model to Sheet mode it works fine

Here, I can fence select it .. but it then wont accept my geometry .. why ?

Something weird here

Jol
jol  
#7 Posted : Monday, April 30, 2007 7:18:36 PM(UTC)
jol

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further

a "sheet view" as named in the edit object box- can be selected with a fence

however, you cannot then paste into it (as noted)

Whilst a selected "draw view" can be pasted into -- but doesn't show up as such in the edit object box

why is this ?

can we get it corrected please ?
jol  
#8 Posted : Monday, April 30, 2007 7:26:08 PM(UTC)
jol

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this function is totally munted

if I fence select a draw view - it cannot be pasted into .. yet it registers with both the feature tree and the object edit box

if I click select it (which it seems to allow say 50% of the time) .. it lights up as selected correctly but registers in neither the feature tree nor the object edit box

Then as ever, after playing with draw views for a while, you can no longer select your objects .. unless you double-click the select arrow .. which seems to put things right. This last bug is as old as I am
jol  
#9 Posted : Monday, April 30, 2007 7:33:26 PM(UTC)
jol

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when you fence select a "draw view" (that is incorrectly labeled a sheet view in the object edit box) .. you get an editable scale in the edit object box - which is really useful

it would be :

A). a damn site more useful if you saw this info when you clicked normally on a "draw view"

B). Useful to have other standard Draw View attributes listed here such as Layouts (sizes), Method (precise, phong etc) and Pen Styles
jol  
#10 Posted : Monday, April 30, 2007 7:43:46 PM(UTC)
jol

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To clarify

if I open a new file & make a single 'draw view' .. I can select it as I would expect .. and paste into it

if I open an existing file .. for example, the assmbly.cu model from the examples folder .. I can draw a draw view but I cannot select it normally to paste into it

Why ?
Tim Olson  
#11 Posted : Thursday, May 3, 2007 9:47:03 PM(UTC)
Tim Olson

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United States

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Hi JoeM,

I've repeated several of your issues. Will try to correct for the next service pack.
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
Todd Quinlan  
#12 Posted : Friday, May 4, 2007 8:40:17 AM(UTC)
Todd Quinlan

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All of the above issues and requests submitted by Jol has been logged and brought to the attention of our development team
Todd Q
CAD Support Specialist
Encore Software/ IMSI Design
jol  
#13 Posted : Friday, May 4, 2007 3:29:23 PM(UTC)
jol

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Todd, brilliant .. thank you !

I have no doubt having you around is going to make a tremendous difference !!
JoeM  
#14 Posted : Friday, May 4, 2007 6:53:40 PM(UTC)
JoeM

Rank: Junior Member

Joined: 4/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 12

Tim,

Thank you very much for your interest. I really am impressed by the modeling capabilities of ViaCad; especially since in my line of work parametrics cause more problems than they solve. I believe there is a real market for a product like ViaCad, if it can generate 2D drawings.

Can you please answer the following specific questions:
1) Is ViaCad only able to generate 2D drawings made up of polylines? That is, no arcs, ellipses or curves?
2) Does this mean that the 2D drawings generated by ViaCad can not really be dimensioned with respect to hole centers, diameters, etc?

Please let me know.

Thanks,

JoeM
Tim Olson  
#15 Posted : Friday, May 4, 2007 11:46:19 PM(UTC)
Tim Olson

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1) Is ViaCad only able to generate 2D drawings made up of polylines? That is, no arcs, ellipses or curves?

That is correct, only polylines. Our CU product licenses technology from Catia V5 to generate drawings that preserve arcs, ellipses, and splines. However, Dassault is very "proud" of this technology and adds a hefty royalty to the product which we are trying to avoid with ViaCAD given its price point.


2) Does this mean that the 2D drawings generated by ViaCad can not really be dimensioned with respect to hole centers, diameters, etc?

No, ViaCAD can precisely dimension these values.

When you do a model to sheet, I keep track of the original curve that generated the polyline. So when you do a radial or diameter dimension on a polyline, I backtrack out what surface or solid edge created the polyline and extract the exact radius/diameter.

This logic is only in the radial or diameter dimension tools (not the Smart Dimension tool). I do not recommend using the Smart Dimension tool when dimensioning draw views populated by polylines.
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
Tim Olson  
#16 Posted : Saturday, May 5, 2007 12:00:38 AM(UTC)
Tim Olson

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Joined: 2/2/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,447
United States

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A couple of issues with Draw Views that I have fixed this evening for ViaCAD and Concepts...

--If you use the model to sheet tool, and select phong or gouraud as the edge format, you would get empty draw views. (Toggle the edge option and it will appear for workaround)


--Copy/Paste curves, text, and dimensions into a blank draw view would cause the orignal objects to disappear. (Bug was introduced when we added support for AutoCAD PaperSpace and Draw Views).

--You can now do a detail view on a draw view that was created from just curves.
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
JoeM  
#17 Posted : Sunday, May 6, 2007 2:31:44 PM(UTC)
JoeM

Rank: Junior Member

Joined: 4/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 12

A few more things I have noticed in ViaCad that I believe to be bugs:

1) Display the model in hidden line view or with hidden line views drawn as light lines. Change to a different level in concept explorer, shutting off the layer on which the model resides. The model remains visible. This does not happen if the model is being displayed in wireframe mode.

2) Import an .sat model containing multiple components to ViaCad. Use the model to sheet command to automatically create separate drawings of the various components, by selecting the entire assembly and checking the appropriate option in the dialog box. ViaCad apparently creates and displays the various drawings, displaying them as they are completed, and automatically places them on separate layers. However, after completion, the only layers that contain anything are the model layer (which is unaffected) and the last layer created (which contains the drawing as it should). All other layers are empty.

Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Sincerely,

Joem
jol  
#18 Posted : Sunday, May 6, 2007 2:47:51 PM(UTC)
jol

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Joe .. be sure to drop it to [email protected]
JoeM  
#19 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2008 8:17:24 AM(UTC)
JoeM

Rank: Junior Member

Joined: 4/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 12

Tim,

I have installed the 738 patch. When I open the 4 view example of the paper towel holder, it still does not display correctly. Does this happen on your system or do you believe it is a driver issue?

Thanks,

JoeM
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