logo
NOTICE:  This is the new PunchCAD forum. You should have received an email with your new password around August 27, 2014. If you did not, or would like it reset, simply use the Lost Password feature, and enter Answer as the security answer.
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Craig  
#1 Posted : Sunday, December 20, 2015 7:06:40 AM(UTC)
Craig

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/26/2009(UTC)
Posts: 383

Thanks: 30 times
Was thanked: 42 time(s) in 36 post(s)
I have been doing a little research on this and it is not recommended to run 32 and 64 bit versions of the same program on the same machine, could this be the reason for many problems?
Tim Olson  
#2 Posted : Monday, December 21, 2015 12:08:17 PM(UTC)
Tim Olson

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/2/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,447
United States

Was thanked: 502 time(s) in 353 post(s)
Hi Craig

Are you running them at the same time?

Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
Craig  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2015 12:41:53 AM(UTC)
Craig

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/26/2009(UTC)
Posts: 383

Thanks: 30 times
Was thanked: 42 time(s) in 36 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post
Hi Craig

Are you running them at the same time?

Tim


Hi Tim, no there would be no reason to have two versions open at the same time.

The information on this issue is very sketchy and limited but I did find a few instances where Microsoft used terms like "we strongly recommend that you do not do this" (installing the same 32 and 64 bit program on the same machine).
AutoCAD also uses the same language and they have a chart with which 32 and 64 bit versions can run together if a customer has to do it but they advise against it. There are numerous editions that customers are told not to attempt to run together "under any circumstances".

There is defiantly interaction between the active and the non-active version, if you tear off a pallet when using V9, you will see that pallet torn of when you start V8, any changes made in the active program affect the non-active version.
If you work on a new file in V8 or V9 and close that version, when you open up the other version you will see the file in the recent files list, so that shows there is definite communication going on.
I removed both versions on the weekend, I left the V8 folder but removed the V9 folder and cleaned out the registry.
When I reinstalled V9 there was no registration process and V9 was using the same settings that V8 uses despite the startup.dat file being in the V8 folder on a different drive, there was no startup.dat file in the V9 folder!
From what I have read the conflict can cause strange things to happen which fits in with what has happened since I loaded V9 onto this machine. V8 ran flawlessly before V9 was installed on this machine but since then V8 has had some strange issues too.

There is only one definite way to prove this and that is to remove both programs completely, clean out the registry and make sure all Punch folders are deleted, and then load V9 on its own and work with it to see if there has been any change.
Hopefully I will be able to start this today as I have a little work that I need to do with V8 and then I can give it a go, I will let you know if there has been any improvement.
Craig  
#4 Posted : Thursday, December 24, 2015 1:38:16 AM(UTC)
Craig

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/26/2009(UTC)
Posts: 383

Thanks: 30 times
Was thanked: 42 time(s) in 36 post(s)
I have not been able to do a lot of work on this but all indications are that V8 should not be run on the same system as V9, there is a definite conflict going on.
My viewing quality has vastly improved, the Subd to Nurb tool now updates to the correct value and I can now extrude the faces of a mesh to a desired value.
These things did not work properly when V8 was on my system and now they do, the Gripper seems a lot more stable, I have not seen it change size as it used to and the overall smoothness of the program has improved drastically.

I removed both programs with the Windows uninstall function, then I manually deleted all Punch folder, cleaned out the registry, rebooted the machine, loaded up V9 and rebooted the machine before opening it and registering it again.
Craig  
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 2, 2016 3:37:59 AM(UTC)
Craig

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/26/2009(UTC)
Posts: 383

Thanks: 30 times
Was thanked: 42 time(s) in 36 post(s)
I have proved without doubt that V8 and V9 cannot be run together on the same machine, why has the community not been informed of this and what is being done about it?
We need V8 because V9 is still full of issues, we cannot be expected to buy a new computer to run a program that we paid a good deal of money to upgrade to.
Is this being sorted out?
Craig  
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 2, 2016 6:53:04 AM(UTC)
Craig

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/26/2009(UTC)
Posts: 383

Thanks: 30 times
Was thanked: 42 time(s) in 36 post(s)
I have been thinking about this and have come to the conclusion that the developers are actually shooting themselves in the foot by allowing both versions to be run on the same system.

Most of the bugs being submitted are not bugs at all, they are anomalies caused by the conflict between a 32 and a 64 bit program having their preferences stored in the same folder.
I used to have so many strange things happen that I thought Shark was possessed by a poltergeist, these things do not happen anymore!

Time is being spent on bug reports that would never have been submitted if there was only one version on the machine, and this is severely impacting the development of the software.

Two of the attached images are of a self disengaging clutch with shear capability that I came up with so we could start older engines on a dyno, tune them with the dyno turned off as well as protecting the engine if a problem occurred.

I came up with this in 2009 and have used it ever since as my benchmark as to how new versions of Shark are running.
The design has since changed drastically but I still use this original design because I know what problems it threw up way back in 2009.
What I found was that if it were modelled as an assembly, components would lose their orientation and Shark would really struggle with it.
The second issue was with the ramp in the face of the ramp plate, modelling the ramp was very difficult in many versions.

The point of all this, over the break I modelled the clutch once again just as I had when I bought this machine and installed V8 and again when I had both V8 and V9 installed.
Once both versions were removed, all Punch folders were deleted and V9 was reinstalled, I redid the clutch and it was a breeze.
I was able to model it as an assembly and had no issues with orientation or with creating the ramp in the face of the ramp plate.
I took the project all the way to the model to sheet stage an the program ran smoothly all the way, I then did a couple of fun models and they ran smoothly too.

I would say that V9 is just as stable as V8 and could be used on its own from build 1182, this would stop false bugs being submitted and would help in the progress of the software.

I have attached the images to show the playing I have done since the fresh install.
File Attachment(s):
Clutch.jpg (709kb) downloaded 9 time(s).
Bike.jpg (792kb) downloaded 9 time(s).
Psychedelic Hell .jpg (1,617kb) downloaded 13 time(s).
Craig attached the following image(s):
RampPlate.jpg (133kb) downloaded 13 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
macnavi  
#7 Posted : Thursday, January 7, 2016 10:32:08 AM(UTC)
macnavi

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 5/23/2012(UTC)
Posts: 274
Netherlands

Thanks: 13 times
Was thanked: 13 time(s) in 10 post(s)
It has to be emphasised that the issues you are experiencing are Windows only. I run ViaCad 2D/3D v8, the same time as ViaCad 2D/3D v9 AND ViaCad Pro Powerpack Beta on a Macintosh and I don't experience any of the conflicts you describing. As an example, my recent opened files list show only the files I've opened last in that application, not from the other.

Seems to me like a problem of the architecture of Windows. I will not comment on that. Mac users had/have other problems with v9 after upgrading to the latest OS.

Edit: running all version at the same time for application testing purposes.

Edited by user Thursday, January 7, 2016 10:33:18 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

My model steam trams at Tramfabriek.nl

Mac OS X El Capitan 10.12.5 - VC Pro v12
Tim Olson  
#8 Posted : Thursday, January 7, 2016 11:25:02 AM(UTC)
Tim Olson

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/2/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,447
United States

Was thanked: 502 time(s) in 353 post(s)
>>that the issues you are experiencing are Windows only.
On mac, v8 and v9 prefs are saved to different locations. I plan to look into saving Windows prefs to different location between versions.

Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.