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la mouche  
#1 Posted : Monday, May 14, 2012 1:51:17 AM(UTC)
la mouche

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 3/14/2007(UTC)
Posts: 757

hello,

I have a workshop of industrial design and I am active in the areas: products design, timepieces, watches making, museums, ...
wide scale of my projects ... 1mm at 50m.

I use this software since 1997.

I have not yet on Mac, found better, for modeling free solid / surface.

I am also a professor and teaches CAD software to many students. It has the advantage of having an approach and excellent ergonomics for the modeling work. This greatly facilitates the educational instruction of 3D.

Here are the strengths and weaknesses of this software:
It is only my opinion. And I hope it can help for development.
(MacOS X Intel)

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]+, The price competitive enough.
+, Ergonomics in 3D modeling.
+, Solid modeling power wire.
+, Interface and snap.
+, Blending power tools.
+, Easy bridge between solid / surface / wireframe.
+, Work assistance, with the description of actions during the modeling.
+, Still several possible ways to get the result.
+, The selection mask.
+, Excellent adaptation to the needs of the industrial designer.
+, Intuitive approach, CCAD concept.
+, The clarity and legibility of the icons.
+, The user forum and chat directly with developers. Active and fun community :) thank you![/COLOR]

but---

[COLOR="Red"]- Excellent software we know IF ANY disease, ... and not going crazy ...
- The rendering module is to throw it away. go in the trash.

- The gateway 3d ---> to model sheet is too, too buggy. (My main criticism)
(I sometimes feel that the developers have never used their product to make a design work ---> real, because it is on a real project that signs of limitations and thus, resolve bugs or slow.)

-, Step example:
Model sheet --- to> customize the technical 2d ---> edition hatching, lines attributes ---> change the 3D geometry ---> refresh of the plan --->
Any customization of our technical 2d, lines, hatching is again with the default attributes!! a horror ....

- It lacks a library of screws, bolts 3d ---> parameter.
-, Unable to work on a surface that has undergone changes, it reverts to its original.
-, Lack of flexibility in surface modeling.
- SharkFX is not made for big jobs with much items. for example:
50 components, it becomes unmanageable, the software becomes too slow and crashes regularly.
- Animation tools: too complicated, it lacks usability.
- The addition of ... toys for architects ... completely outdated.
-, Crashing repeatedly for 16 months,

and THE worst: corrupted files ----> unable to retrieve his file.
(Tip: Register with increment: projet0, project1, project2, etc. and do not forget the backup function) many hours of work lost.

- The orientation of Punch! to a customer amateur ... They neglect professionals.

- Slow to get a stable version of V.8 WITHOUT bug.
-, Fixing bugs, and the appearance of other bugs ... already solved in the past.[/COLOR]

Tim?, Would not it time to review all the code and clean up the software?

Thank you, these criticisms are my own.
Tim Olson  
#2 Posted : Monday, May 14, 2012 2:44:59 PM(UTC)
Tim Olson

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>> The gateway 3d ---> to model sheet is too, too buggy. (My main criticism)
>>Any customization of our technical 2d, lines, hatching is again with the default attributes!! a horror ....

If anyone has an example file, video, or detailed steps to repeat that would be most helpful.

Regards

Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
ttrw  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2012 5:44:59 AM(UTC)
ttrw

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Originally Posted by: la mouche Go to Quoted Post

- The rendering module is to throw it away. go in the trash.

- The gateway 3d ---> to model sheet is too, too buggy. (My main criticism)
(I sometimes feel that the developers have never used their product to make a design work ---> real, because it is on a real project that signs of limitations and thus, resolve bugs or slow.)

-, Step example:
Model sheet --- to> customize the technical 2d ---> edition hatching, lines attributes ---> change the 3D geometry ---> refresh of the plan --->
Any customization of our technical 2d, lines, hatching is again with the default attributes!! a horror ....



I've got no experience of Shark's renderer, but currently I'm using what ViaCAD exports, and importing it into Cheetah3D, which is a bargain for the price. Could I suggest removing all the rendering stuff and concentrating on getting all the bugs fixed that Antoine has outlined above? There are plenty of excellent standalone renderers available like Maxwell and Keyshot. Why not just leave it to them, and concentrate on what really matters? Perhaps strengthening the available export options already available. 3DS export on ViaCAD 2D/3D would be most welcome.

I also agree with Antoine on model to sheet. It's a horror! You've made significant improvements Tim to this function, but it still behaves very erratically, so much that I've now ended up exporting DWG into an external 2D CA, just so I can get on with the work at hand.

I recommend that you should also concentrate less on the tools for architects, leave that for applications such Trimble's SketchUp, which is freeware or Vectorworks.

And yes, "Unable to work on a surface that has undergone changes, it reverts to its original." It's a PITA!!

These too are my main criticisms, of what otherwise is really a very good software package. :)

regards

Tom
Tim Olson  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:05:11 PM(UTC)
Tim Olson

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>>I also agree with Antoine on model to sheet.

I'm looking for some repeatable examples to fix.

Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
ttrw  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:42:08 PM(UTC)
ttrw

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Will do Tim. I've just finished quite a major job on a very tight schedule/deadline using my usual QCad/ViaCAD/Cheetah3D workflow. Got to pull some more work in now, but rest assured I'll be knocking on your door as soon as I run into difficulties again. :)

Tom
ZeroLengthCurve  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2012 3:19:11 PM(UTC)
ZeroLengthCurve

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A dismay that I have is that imported meshes cannot be made to behave as a "touchable" surface. By touchable, I mean useful for setting boundaries, cutting/trimming surfaces and solids and curves, and not simply colorized or decomposed into multiple facets.

What is depressing is that because it is not Punch's/Encore's forte, dxf exports that perfectly match their source won't match in VCP/Shark after I convert those meshes to surfaces. I don't even want to modify the meshes themselves, but I want to be able to touch them, terminate a ray/line/curve at them, take dimensions to or from them to another normal VCP object, and so on.

The meshes as imported follow the related curves that are in the source application from which they're exported. So, whether it's a ship or a space ship or the vestibule of a billion-dollar skyscraper, it would also be very useful to not have to decompose/convert the meshes, meaning keeping the file sized down enormously, and keeping long-running computations at bay because no resources would be wasted on accounting for hundreds, even thousands of vertices.

Somebody out there must have affordable converters or manipulators that Punch can buy, license, or use royalty-free. I just wish that whatever it is, where ever it is, that it would appear soon, and be incorporated SOON. I cannot tell you how many hours I spend yoking around with converted surfaces that force me to compromise on: "let the resulting surfaces rule, or let the curve rule?" Sometimes, between exasperation and depression, I walk away from CAD and do something else just to prevent committing seppuku, taking in vain the name of one or more deities, and pounding on my desk.

Sorry, I keep beating a near-dead, oozing horse. But, I'd rather be able to vote with $250-$400 hard, cold cash or a bank check to Encore to once and for all implement this for me -- before October. Something integrated, built-in, smoothy running, and not standalone, not 3rd-party-add-on.
jol  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2012 2:08:31 AM(UTC)
jol

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Good comments Antoine !!

With regard model to sheet - I think we really need to spell out why it's not good enough. Tim's not seeing it.

I don't doubt that Tim can then address it.

Personally, I avoid M2S whenever possible because I hate it

1. The problems begin as soon as the first dialog (and the draw view properties dialogs) - it's 2012 ... I want a bounding box preview please !!

2. Why is it so slow ?

3. Then there's the old ... "AG Curve Evaluation Failed". What the hell is it and why does it keep happening ?

4. Missing lines are all too frequent. Yes I can provide an example.

5. Overlapping lines are however a bigger problem

6. M2S presentation is simply horrible - all the line graphics are from 1992. Our fence select and axis aligns have all been updated to use beautiful modern line drawing - so why does M2S look like it's on my ZX Spectrum ?

6. Why is anti-alias an option ? I don't get it. Have you used Illustrator ? Such beautiful line quality. SolidWorks is the same. In fact - most apps are. M2S just feels raw and unrefined. Other apps allow AA to be turned off - we allow it to be turned on - why ?

7. No iconised tool sub-palette ... just this weird proprietary red box in the corner.

8. Delete doesn't work like it does anywhere else

9. What if I *just* want a product's outline ? I have asked a hundred times. Just bad luck right ?

10. No. of items selected is not reflected in top of Inspector Window - why not ?

11. On exiting M2S, Extents must return to where they were BEFORE M2S. Just a small thing but it drives you nuts

12. Why would the text in my sheet view not be completed automatically with information from the file / preferences ? Eg : designer's name, contact details, file name, date. etc

... on it goes, but I won't carry on as I sense no resolve to address the shortcomings of M2S
jol  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2012 2:41:40 AM(UTC)
jol

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re. item 10 above

I just did another test drawing - which reported there are ...

"Inspector : 413 Solid"

... in my line drawing of a single solid
jol  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2012 2:50:01 AM(UTC)
jol

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I think the preferences for model to sheet should move to the inspector !?

(note the "413 solid" - which I might have presented as "413 solid(s)" ... if in fact there were any solids)
jol attached the following image(s):
sheet.png (53kb) downloaded 4 time(s).

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jol  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2012 3:44:04 AM(UTC)
jol

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By way of pushing this forward - here's a stab at how the properties dialog could be improved

(... a basic preview could be generated by creating a box from the selected object's extents ?)
jol attached the following image(s):
m2s.jpg (162kb) downloaded 4 time(s).

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ttrw  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2012 6:00:22 AM(UTC)
ttrw

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Jol, Couldn't have put it better. :)

In all fairness to Tim, exporting to DWG, opens up a VC file fine (or what seems fine to me anyway) in an external program like AutoCAD or Draftsight, but that's not really the point is it? All these commands should be able to be executed under the roof of one application, with ease and style, not having to rely on others for it's support?
la mouche  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2012 7:25:44 AM(UTC)
la mouche

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 3/14/2007(UTC)
Posts: 757

Quote:
I walk away from CAD and do something else just to prevent committing seppuku, taking in vain the name of one or more deities, and pounding on my desk.


:D:D:D trs rigolo! :p
la mouche  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2012 7:35:37 AM(UTC)
la mouche

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 3/14/2007(UTC)
Posts: 757

Quote:
By way of pushing this forward - here's a stab at how the properties dialog could be improved

(... a basic preview could be generated by creating a box from the selected object's extents ?)


very good!!! your suggestion!
la mouche  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2012 8:07:20 AM(UTC)
la mouche

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 3/14/2007(UTC)
Posts: 757

Hi Tim,

I had already sent demos on bugs in the "too model sheet" and the misinterpretation of SharkFX to write lines. And destruction of the drawing after publishing personalized 3d model.

To summarize in this demo:

Personalized attributes of the cut are destroyed after the edition of the 3d model.

Please see my demo.

http://screencast.com/t/sQUT01LhGdQb

Thank you in advance.

Antoine
jol  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2012 10:28:30 AM(UTC)
jol

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Good everyone - I hope we can now make some progress with M2S

I would love to use it if it worked properly ... and presented itself better !
jol  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2012 10:38:20 AM(UTC)
jol

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I've just been through your excellent video Antoine

So many reasons why I dislike M2S

However, I wager every one of them is eminently fixable !
Tim Olson  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2012 10:40:16 PM(UTC)
Tim Olson

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>>Please see my demo.

That keep me busy all day:) I managed to knock out a couple of those. Will report more later...


Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
Tim Olson  
#18 Posted : Thursday, May 17, 2012 10:44:15 AM(UTC)
Tim Olson

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Antoine

>>Please see my demo.

Using your demo I've so far made the following updates...

1. Changing the hatch pattern from the Inspector now correctly updates the data entry window values.

2. Improved the Overlap checks in model to sheet

3. Improved the Duplicates checks in model to sheet

4. Corrected an issue with flatten view where certain curves would translate into the wrong position.

Please keep the videos and steps to repeat coming all, they really help a lot!

Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
lgrijalva  
#19 Posted : Thursday, May 17, 2012 5:18:02 PM(UTC)
lgrijalva

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Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post
Antoine

>>

4. Corrected an issue with flatten view where certain curves would translate into the wrong position.

Please keep the videos and steps to repeat coming all, they really help a lot!

Tim


Hurraay!!!

Luis G.
Luis G
Industrial Designer
MacOSX Ventura 13.6.4
User since Concepts Unlimited
SharkCad 14
www.miditec.com.mx
www.diferro.com
jlm  
#20 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2012 10:58:52 AM(UTC)
jlm

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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post

Personally, I avoid M2S whenever possible because I hate it


So do I, but I definitely need it...

I fully support Jol's 12 points and I can add many more :

13 - correct bug of "squeezing solid" when zooming in a rendered view
14 - have a real inspector function regrouping all text and font parameters (like other softs).
15 - Same thing for dimension parameters.
16 - Same thing for Hatches.
17 - Make area selection work (as it was on Vellum 2.7) for hatching.
18 - Let lines be lines, and arcs be arcs, not just dumb splines.
19 - have a really functioning regen toggle (manual/auto), globally (not view by view).
20 - Solve the detail views bugs when regen.
21 - Hatch not working in detail views (recognized as lines).
22 - have line weights and style saved correctly with the file (when I open on different computers, it changes)

I stop here. When those will be corrected, I will add a few more...

Advise to the new comers : until Tim solves the issues, always "print as pdf" every drawing when it's finished, because if you want to open the file next month or next year, it may be totally messed-up with text, dimensions and lines displayed differently, or even missing completely. Most of my old files are like that...

Another advise : if your work is complex, don't do MTS on your reference 3D work file. Make a copy before...
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