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Split Solids and Split Surfaces Merging After Split Operation - Surface used for splitting a solid becomes part of the split solid.
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ZeroLengthCurve  
#1 Posted : Sunday, September 11, 2022 12:02:08 AM(UTC)
ZeroLengthCurve

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Hi,

This is suddenly happening and it's unexpected and undesirable.

It wasn't happening days ago. (Or, I'm imagining things...) I'm troubleshooting, I have been resolving links, compacting the file, destroying suspect surfaces and solids, re-copying or duplicating them (all within the same working file), and still cannot put an end to this.

I feel certain this behavior was not occuring earlier in the recent few weeks.

The solid in question is a hull, a transom, and the top deck, all three being surfaces.

I failed to watertight stitch them, but stitched them without watertightness.

I created circles and to the circles created a surface.

I invoked the Split tool, selected the solid, selected the surface, and keep ending up with an undesired combined part. Deep select is not letting me deconflict the problem. (And, it seems, there's no way to deep select as part of the split operation or after it, it seems...)

Similarly, I created one spline offboard. Link-mirror duplicated it. The profile is a ramp-like shape. I created a surface between the two curves. I split the solid, and, again, the cutting surface becomes part of and inseparable from the solid.

If anyone can inform me that I'm mistaken about the tool operation, I'd be appreciative.

Thanks!

ZeroLengthCurve


Additional info:

Im using SharkCAD Pro, v12 PowerPacked, build 1588.

Edited by user Sunday, September 11, 2022 12:04:54 AM(UTC)  | Reason: added version number

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rockyroad_us  
#2 Posted : Sunday, September 11, 2022 12:42:02 PM(UTC)
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Do you have a file or pictures before and after? hard to visualize.
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ZeroLengthCurve  
#3 Posted : Monday, September 12, 2022 4:01:35 AM(UTC)
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Hi.

Here are pics of:

1. Solid to be split, and surface used for splitting

2. Solid split, the to-be-discarded piece, and each apparently showing they acquired a fused surface

3. Solid after show-only


4. No ability to separate the two without decomposing the solid and risking changes to it if rebuilt.[img]http://[/img]

Edited by user Monday, September 12, 2022 4:05:56 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ZeroLengthCurve  
#4 Posted : Monday, September 12, 2022 4:09:05 AM(UTC)
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[img]http://[img]http://[/img]http://[/img]



And, then SharkCAD crashed after I did undo after testing out "Duplicate Part as Instance"



As an experiment, I successfully split two solids built as solids of a pipe, using the pipe tool and using a surface between two splines, much like the cutter seen in the images above.

The pipes split just fine.

My ship hull solid is a non-watertight stitch of the hull, transom, and top deck.


I also just now (while editing this) successfully split the surfaces obtained after I converted the solid to surfaces.

My usual method is cutting the model and then stitching, but sometimes, an uneven surface would emerge in ISO view, no matter undoing or tossing the model and using a fresh, symmetrical cutter.

It's seeming likely the result of slicing the solid with a surface may have been present for this version or earlier, and I never noticed until changing my routine.

I hope it is modified to be an option, not a by-program-intent function.

Edited by user Monday, September 12, 2022 4:33:40 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ZeroLengthCurve  
#5 Posted : Monday, September 12, 2022 4:59:50 AM(UTC)
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Hmmm...

There may be a severe problem with my model or the underlying database of the model.


Also, I successfully achieved a split solid in a new files but using only 7 of the same underlying hull splines. Not a definitive test of cruft an the file or the temp file.

1. On a lark, I tried to deep-select and remove the face of a solid (thickened surface) that embedeed itself in both the to-be-retained and the to-be-discarded solids.

The solid is a copy of a stitched solid.


I'll need to find out if the parent solid is also peone to absorbi g the cutter surface and solid.


See image for error message.


2. In a fresh file in the same instance of Shark with my parent 40+mb file open, I copied 7 of the hill curves, and recreated the guide skin surface. An open/non-watertight stitchd body refused to split, and threw an error message about model parameter error.


I guide-skin-surface swept the foreshortened top deck and split it with a surface cutter. No issues.
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ZeroLengthCurve  
#6 Posted : Monday, September 12, 2022 5:05:00 AM(UTC)
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The Deep
-Select-fail image claims to be attached, but the form7 says I uploaded 2 images.

Sigh...


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rockyroad_us  
#7 Posted : Monday, September 12, 2022 8:38:20 AM(UTC)
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trying to figure out how you fused a surface to a solid. Not sure if that's even possible. You either work with surfaces or with solids. The only time is when you want to split a solid with a surface but it should not have fused.

Do you have the actual file to replicate. I just know you cannot remove a surface lingering around on a solid since the parametric doesn't know its boundary to remove thus the error. This happens a lot where you have tapered surface and you want to remove say a blend. The computer can't figure out the original taper.

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ZeroLengthCurve  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, September 13, 2022 3:51:29 AM(UTC)
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Hi,

Unfortunately for me, it's SharkCAD doing the fusing. This wasnt a big issue in S9, other than occasional ragged surface in the flight deck if a cut or slice finished.

I just tonight even reinstalled Shark and srill the ugly, infuriating problem is happen. At first, it seemed a workaround was to copy the curves to a freah new fime, rebuild the surface, stitch non-watertight, and split it uaing a surface.

Then, no sooner than I proclaimed here that that worked, that blew up in my face.

Then, I went to splitting a surface and joining those surfaces, and then stitching. Cutting them produces a ragged edge on the right.

So, I tossed that solid, and made a new surface, sliced the surfaces, joined them, and then added a surface, and still get a raggedy surface that is where I'm drawing the flight deck.

I've cleaned the temp directory, rebooted, screamed, cursed, chanted runes, and more. No joy.

It's as if an embedded time bomb went off.

So, I reinstalled SharkCAD 12 and the same problems happened. I'm NOT switching to TV. I'm attached to Shark, and I'm not rewarding the company by buying into TC. I have my reasons, back in 2007. Besides, I want an app that decidedly does NOT loook like AutoCAD nor tries to mimic it or be a replacement. I don't like AC, and don't want to use anything reminding me OF it.

Maybe something's wrong with Build 1588.

As for a cooy of the fil, it's currently got in it too much stuff I'm not ready to share. Cleaner test files now even are blowing up a little, so, when I cool down, maybe I'll share one of those.


Maybe I need to reinstall windows. I'm also suspecting that the TC 22 install that was mailed to me instead of S12 (which I installed while awaiting the thing I ordered) may have installed something that is destabilizing.

When things suddenly go wrong too fast, it's easy to become conspiracy-theory-minded.

This is a machine thst doesn't go online more than a few seconds a year. It almost feels as if something is getting inside my files.

I also tried a much older file, from months ago when I wasn't having this issue, and wve THAT file today exhibited the problems I'm posting about.

I need to cool off.
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ZeroLengthCurve  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, September 13, 2022 5:25:40 AM(UTC)
ZeroLengthCurve

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BINGO * 0.5!!!!!

I'm closing in on the digital scourge.

I uninstalled Bud 1588 and tested 1592, and the problem travels. But, this time, I paid attention to my transom and maybe the devs can locate the problem.

It has something to do with code in Guide Skin Surface tool and Cover Surface tool.

Successful splitting happens when I use the Cover Surface tool to create my transom. But, the transom created is bulgy and ugly and unacceptable (meaning I need to explore using the regular surface to see how the Split Sokid tool behaves). However, the to-be-discarded part and the retained hull part both can be Verify/Repaired. The flight deck distortion is repaired. But, the area of the transom itsel is too ugly to use.


As for using the Guide Skin Surface tool, the transom is visually correct and acceptable.

However, something in the solidification of the 3nsurfaces (Hull, Transom, and Top Deck) gets treated in some way that causes the Split Solid tool to generate a 2nd cutting surface and bonds one each to the hull and to the to-be-discarded material/solid, and does so in a way that deep select cannot extract and thus means that they cannot be separated.

Worse, the Verify/Repair feature reports NO issues.

OTOH, when the Cover Surface is used for the transom and the bulgy transom is the tradeoff, and I run Verify/Repair, the feature definitely shows issues, and even repairs the wacky geometry of the flight deck.

At least I feel better that I found ab aberration that is not (just) me.

Part of my frustration is that I wasn't keeping track of how I was creating the transom, and wasn't noting the distortion becaue it blended into the black screen background.

I hope Tim and Team will go examinthe modules for replication. I don't think it requires my file. It should be sufficient to creat a. Ody from wires, comicate them with slices/mirrors, joins, adding cover surfaces/surfaces/guide skin surfaces, and then solidifying them before splitting the body.

Perhaps I can upload my tes/ redact file if I get it off of my computer.

ZLC

[img]http://[/img]
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ZeroLengthCurve  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, September 13, 2022 5:40:30 AM(UTC)
ZeroLengthCurve

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No joy with the Skin Surface tool. It and the Guide Skin Surface tool must have a different underlying code base sufficiently different enough that of the 3, only the Cover Surface tool involved in stitching results in the Split Somid tool splitting rhe solid without fusing rhe cutting surface into each of the two split parts.[img]http://[/img]
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rockyroad_us  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, September 13, 2022 7:41:59 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ZeroLengthCurve Go to Quoted Post
BINGO * 0.5!!!!!

OTOH, when the Cover Surface is used for the transom and the bulgy transom is the tradeoff, and I run Verify/Repair, the feature definitely shows issues, and even repairs the wacky geometry of the flight deck.

[img]http://[/img]


Saw your pictures. One error says duplicate vertex. To me it sounds as if you have selected two lines or something is duplicated twice to be a duplicate vertex.

Maybe when you upload a file, someone else can enlighten the subject and reproduce it. You are all over the place right now. A simple split shouldn't have caused too many errors.

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creativecad  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, September 14, 2022 4:18:13 PM(UTC)
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Could you or have you tried copying your parts and then slicing the copy?
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ZeroLengthCurve  
#13 Posted : Thursday, September 15, 2022 12:14:08 AM(UTC)
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Thanks. Yes.

I do that often, but sometimes, it's inconvenient if not stitched/joined to suppress the copied-surface's surface control points

I've gotten to successful shells and I'm chalking it up to "Perversity of the Inanimate", as one of my old, decades-ago chiefs used to say about our fleet/shipboard teletype machines.

I've spent hours cutting in random places, repairing, and teying to repair visually bad objects Shark says has zero errors.

I've also played a bit of whack-a-mole because some control points were linked to copied surfaces that I didn't want regenerating durfaces I'd already sliced and disposed of unwanted stuff.

Anyway, thsnks again for the suggestion.
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