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jonah  
#1 Posted : Sunday, November 18, 2007 12:44:45 PM(UTC)
jonah

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Posts: 9

im trying to sweep a rectangle along a curve and i get an error message that says "the sweep results in self intersecting surfaces." i dont get it. similar sweeps in the same drawing are no problem.
Tim Olson  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:20:58 PM(UTC)
Tim Olson

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>>"the sweep results in self intersecting surfaces."

Usually that means that the sweep path has to tight of curvature for the given profile. You may need to post the file.
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
Brian Crowe  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 12:18:35 PM(UTC)
Brian Crowe

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I am learning about the software and building my skills as I have the time... I have hit the wall, though, with this problem of self-intersecting surfaces when I do a One Rail Sweep Solid. A file is attached. The sweep profile is a simple circle 1/8" diameter, and the options are is "Sweep Perp" "Curve Extents" (angles are both zero). My assumption is that the bend radius is greater than the diameter of the sweep profile.

Is there a way with ViaCAD Pro v6.0 to allow for intersecting surfaces? It would be "nifty" to 1) optionally allow self intersecting surfaces, and 2) see where surfaces intersect to clean up later for manufacturability considerations.

Just thinking out loud - I will probably change the sweep path to round out the end somewhat, and I am sure that will fix this problem. If anyone has a clever solution or knows a ViaCAD option to allow for self-intersecting surfaces, I would appreciate a pointer! That would "teach me a thing or two...".

This forum is valuable, and the members here are super!

Thanks - Brian
File Attachment(s):
Problem Sweeps.vcp (18kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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ZeroLengthCurve  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 2:13:42 PM(UTC)
ZeroLengthCurve

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I've tried various sweep options when i hit this problem. Sometimes, i've had to segment the curve, create the surfaces i needed, then joined the surfaces. By the way when doing a sweep, how many curves are you selecting? For example, when sweeping a surface for a rectangle, are you selecting all 4 curves/lines? (Maybe that gives another error message...)
L. Banasky  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 2:44:19 PM(UTC)
L. Banasky

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>>>>
Yes Brian, It will work with smaller diameters.
File Attachment(s):
Problem Sweeps_smaller Dias.vcp (125kb) downloaded 6 time(s).

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Brian Crowe  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 3:45:05 PM(UTC)
Brian Crowe

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Yesssss - I have been playing this afternoon... I have also found that smaller diameters will sweep successfully. I need to dig a little into the mathematics to see what the limits of the conic constructions can be (related to the diameter of the sweep profile circle) before the bend radius becomes critical. I don't know if I remember that much about conic sections, but I have a book somewhere when I have the time.

When I sweep, I generally "shift-select" the entire continuous path. My belief is that if this works, the part is generally manufacturable. Sometime, I too have found that segmenting the path builds the swept element successfully when the entire path failed, but that may not be manufacturable...

My simplest fix has been to "crank up the rho" of the conic construction components and resolve links to reconstruct the model I am building - that process is trial and error. It would be really elegant if the error message was a dialog that asked to adjust the rho to the minimum successful value!

Thanks for the remarks, fellows!

Brian
blowlamp  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 3:54:10 PM(UTC)
blowlamp

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Joined: 6/28/2008(UTC)
Posts: 648

Brian.
Is the Pipe tool of any use for this? It looks like it follows the curves, but you can see the join at the intersection.

Martin.
ShawnDriscoll  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 5:41:57 PM(UTC)
ShawnDriscoll

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Joined: 8/22/2009(UTC)
Posts: 27

Originally Posted by: Brian Crowe Go to Quoted Post
My simplest fix has been to "crank up the rho" of the conic construction components and resolve links to reconstruct the model I am building - that process is trial and error. It would be really elegant if the error message was a dialog that asked to adjust the rho to the minimum successful value!


I wish all programs did this. But they won't do the extra effort to find such values for you. I just do the "higher or lower" shuffle until a program doesn't nag me anymore, while also trying to keep a shape manufacturable.
Brian Crowe  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 8:14:06 PM(UTC)
Brian Crowe

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Joined: 8/9/2008(UTC)
Posts: 29

Hi Martin,

I have not gotten deep into the some features of ViaCAD Pro, yet. I am probably no longer a novice, but I am still broadening my experience - surfaces are next on the radar!

The Pipe tool is new to me. Thank you for pointing to this feature - I'll give it a whirl and see how its behavior differs from a perpendicular circular path sweep - it may have some subtle differences and may be forgiving of constraints like the self-intersecting surface problem. I suspect, though, that it is precisely the same as the one-rail sweep of a perpendicular circular profile over the entire extent of a curve - it would simplify what I am doing none the less.

Thanks for "piping" up!

Brian
zumer  
#10 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2009 1:19:28 AM(UTC)
zumer

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Try lathing a closed profile. You'll only be successful if the lathe axis doesn't cross the boundary. Selfintersection occurs in sweeps to the same criteria, ie if the instantaneous radius of the sweep path places an instantaneous axis of rotation within the profile boundary, but it's not immediately obvious because of the 2D or 3D path. You can guarantee success with the profile and path of your choosing when the reference point is offset from the geometric centre of the profile, as in the picture. How much offset is pretty much obliged to be an empirical test, because it also depends on the orientation of the profile, if it's anything other than circular.

murray
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Brian Crowe  
#11 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:35:23 AM(UTC)
Brian Crowe

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Joined: 8/9/2008(UTC)
Posts: 29

Hi Murray,

I see what you did there - if I choose the sweep origin to be a quadrant point for example (but the right one) instead of the center, I can sweep successfully if the path doesn't twist in certain extreme ways. And I think you are correct, too, that if the profile is irregular, there are those opportunities for self-intersections that also arise.

Thanks for that! I'm learnin'

Brian
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